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F@H to level the playing-field between SMP & GPU

 
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Duke


Joined: 14 Oct 2009
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Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: F@H to level the playing-field between SMP & GPU Reply with quote

Apparently, there has been some rather vigorous discussion at Stanford surrounding "equal points for equal work".

Vijay Pande wrote:
...we feel that it is time to unify GPU and SMP benchmarking, both for simplicity and fairness.

The full announcement can be seen HERE.
The essential take-away is that GPUs will now also get a 'quick-return' bonus.

Unfortunately, the point-gap between those with older/slower GPUs vs. newer/faster ones will widen even more.
I don't think that's particularly fair Crying or Very sad ...and I'm one of those with faster GPU shrubbers!
This is parallel to socio-economic politics: The wealthy get increasingly lavish banquets while the middle-class is told to be grateful for the diminishing table-scraps! #Cussing out

Simplicity - perhaps. Fairness - my !
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Concrete-mixing Moose
Prince
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Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 567
Location: The Joyce Grenfell Home for the Distressed

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the reason I gave up F@H. Big bonus for big machines, crumbs for your "average" cruncher. Sad
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PhastPhred
Prince
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Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Northwest AR (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concrete-mixing Moose wrote:
That's the reason I gave up F@H. Big bonus for big machines, crumbs for your "average" cruncher. Sad


I'm getting the left-over crumbs! Shocked
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Duke


Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 435
Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well - there I've gone and done it!
I guess I won't be scoring any popularity points at FoldingForum, huh?

I couldn't let this one go without a slightly-muted flame-post:
http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=22756#p226887


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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
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Joined: 14 Oct 2009
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Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAAGGHHH!!!!

What's wrong with me (aside from the obvious)?

I just fanned the flames (again) with this topic over at folding forum.
Newest post: http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=22756&start=30#p227217
There's been some rather 'lively' discussion, and I couldn't resist putting my foot in it again!
But this really has my hackles up! And I'm not likely to back down (for me, this is not a wooden soap-box - easily broken & burned).
At least there are some reasonable, sympathetic voices over there - I'm not alone posing some uncomfortable questions.

I haven't just been griping, though.
I've made a suggestion that some kind of historical consistency-of-contribution factor be used in their reassessment of how points are awarded.
This suggestion has received some support from a few of their more senior members, but the new techno-elite are resisting.


PS - I made sure to add a disclaimer that I am not speaking on behalf of the KWSN.
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Concrete-mixing Moose
Prince
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

F@H forget that there is already a built-in bonus for people with new machines - they crunch more per hour then older machines. Quicker returns more shrubs/hour. More points per kw/h too.

#ni-1
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - that's the "math" point I was trying to make.
The inherent bonus of newer/faster hardware = more WUs over the same period of time.

They (folding-forum techno-elites) are complaining that older [presumed slower] hardware slows-down the project(s).
My counter-point was this: If you piss-off enough veteran folders, they may just quit altogether - and who will help make-up that computing deficit?

What I am campaigning for is a dedication-dividend factor in the point-scoring system.
Let's say that I crunch 1 WU on my GTX-690.
And someone else (a long-term folding veteran) does the same WU on their GTX-690.
Let's say the nominal points for that WU = 5000.
Since I've only been folding for about 3 years (and the majority of my points have posted within with the past 6 months), I should only get a minimal bonus if any.
Give me just 5015? points.
But for the long-term dedicated folder (5+years?) there should be an additional dividend paid to reflect that dedication.
Give the veteran 5100 points!

Not a huge bonus, but at least one that says:
For equal WUs on equal hardware, the 'veterans' will get a little more incentive & appreciation.

I'm NOT suggesting using a handicap scoring system (like golf or bowling).
And I'm not suggesting any form of "charity" or sympathy points to be assessed.
I am ambivalent about a one-time point re-valuation of WUs that were done in the distant past. There are good arguments on both sides of that argument.

But, the young-turks (kinda like me) will have to "earn" that extra dividend through long-term dedication.

I am horrified that one of our own Knights has completed 5x the number of WUs that I have, but yet has only half the points.
That seems grossly & manifestly wrong.


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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something weird has been happening at F@H recently.
Has anyone else noticed???

From [roughly] 1-Nov-2012, the points (or WUs being assigned) were erratic.
For the most part, lower-PPD WUs.

Today 10-Nov-2012, I have already accumulated over 206k points, when my nominal average should be about 104k.
Nothing odd about WU/day - this seems about normal (for my hdwe).
But I'm getting nearly twice the points!
EDIT: 11-Nov-2012 points = 221,064

Did those @%$#-ing idiots go ahead with their stupid point-rigging scheme? #evil
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Last edited by Putting_things_on_top on Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gemjunkie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, been doing Fight Malaria@home and Poem.
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, its official. The unified scheme has gone into effect.
http://folding.typepad.com/news/2012/12/unified-gpusmp-benchmarking-scheme-implemented-.html

They haven't implemented QRB (quick-return-bonus) just yet for the unified scheme.
We DID see this on some of the GPU beta WUs, but they're still looking at how to actually calculate QRB.
Apparently, there are still some "internal discussions".

My concern is the seemingly unfair advantage being given to those with newer equipment, and the chilling effect it may have on veteran folders (who have respectable [yet older] hdwe).


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Antigens
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least they have increased the ppd for GPU. I never liked that you needed a 16cpu to get the bigadv points.
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