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How many think we should require mod approval on first post?
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Would you like mod approval on new member's first post to reduce the spam?
Yes, enough of these hand bags
94%
 94%  [ 18 ]
No, spam is tastey
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Don't care either way
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 19

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Nuadormrac
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: How many think we should require mod approval on first post? Reply with quote

After the never ending influx of spam, the question is self explanatory enough?
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Gemjunkie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be first 10 posts though.
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Pooh Bear 27
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree on the 10. It seems most of them post several at one time, so if you MOD only the first post and then the rest are allowed, they'll still post several and we'll still see them.

Of course BOTS do learn (that's how we are being targeted) they'll learn the minimum to post to will still get live posts.

The security for signup should be strengthened. I am sure we are using old security that has probably been cracked.
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about forcing all "Grunts" to use something like a Captcha device for every post?
A good, free one is here: www.google.com/recaptcha

Once they evolve beyond the 'grunt' title, the Captcha thing can be turned off.

Too difficult to implement? Dunno.
Keep out the "particles of fecal matter"...probably most, not all.



Burgler? or Encyclopedia Salesman?
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Last edited by Putting_things_on_top on Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gemjunkie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of spam is posted by low payed workers in third world countries, they can enter Captcha code. It's not worth paying them to compose 10 legitimate sounding posts just to be able to make one spam post and get banned.


#ni-2
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gemjunkie wrote:
A lot of spam is posted by low payed workers in third world countries, they can enter Captcha code. It's not worth paying them to compose 10 legitimate sounding posts just to be able to make one spam post and get banned.

Yes, but we ARE the Knights Who Say Ni!, and we shall give them a test...

If they are indeed low-paid workers in 3rd-world countries, what knowledge or skill would they have:
  • of the 3 sacred words?
  • of the air-speed velocity of a fully laden swallow?
  • to precisely name the ichthyological tool with which the mightiest tree in the forest should be felled?
  • to accurately describe (and abide by) rule #4 or rule #6?


But on a more serious note, you've half-proven my point.
I seriously doubt that meat-puppets are being paid to log-in and type these evil posts (even with cut-n-paste).
What I think is happening, is that people are goaded into establishing IDs on various phpBB (etc) sites, and then selling those IDs and website addresses and forum topic links to spam-bot sites.
Captcha will not stop all spam-bots completely, but may slow them down enough to make it "not worth the time/effort".
And when was the last time we saw a spammer "reply" to an existing legitimate post-thread?
They almost always seem to start a new thread - more indicative of a bot than a meat-puppet.

And WHY are they trying to sell useless crap (probably cheap knockoffs at that)?
Handbags??? Perfume??? Designer Furniture??? GAWD!!! Enough already!!!
Why not sell things like computers, vacation discounts, porn, shampoo, or bacon?
Now THOSE are useful (mostly).

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Last edited by Putting_things_on_top on Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mifun
Duke
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Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope i'm against it. Mod approval of registration\posts is a total disaster for mods.

I got like 100 notifications every single day and it finally forced me to install anti-spam plugin.

Captcha is annoying and some times useless, i installed "Registration question" plugin (you manually make questions and it randomly sends to person who is trying to register) and it totally solved the problem. No spammers at all.
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mifun wrote:
Nope i'm against it. Mod approval of registration\posts is a total disaster for mods.

I got like 100 notifications every single day and it finally forced me to install anti-spam plugin.

Captcha is annoying and some times useless, i installed "Registration question" plugin (you manually make questions and it randomly sends to person who is trying to register) and it totally solved the problem. No spammers at all.

Now THAT sounds GREAT!
Does it cost a fair chunk-o-change?
I'd be happy to chip in some coin (if needed) for an upgrade like that!

I just started reading phpBB's forum about anti-spam methods here: http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2122696

Hmmm, many of the visual Captcha's have been 'broken' by increasingly sophisticated bot-ware. UUGGHH!

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Nuadormrac
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pooh Bear 27 wrote:
I agree on the 10. It seems most of them post several at one time, so if you MOD only the first post and then the rest are allowed, they'll still post several and we'll still see them.

Of course BOTS do learn (that's how we are being targeted) they'll learn the minimum to post to will still get live posts.

The security for signup should be strengthened. I am sure we are using old security that has probably been cracked.


Actually, if one looks at how they do it on Yoyo's forums for instance, the first post, is the first post approved, not the first post made. So if one makes 2 posts on a new account, they're both awaiting mod approval. Only after the first one gets approved is the door open for one to post on their board without it awaiting approval... Until something's approved, the post count there remains 0...

Now the number of posts would be somewhat arbitrary, but when I had something to post at Yoyo's boards, I noticed they had something along the lines of what's being suggested here up and running already #ni-1
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Nuadormrac
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting_things_on_top wrote:
But on a more serious note, you've half-proven my point.
I seriously doubt that meat-puppets are being paid to log-in and type these evil posts (even with cut-n-paste).
What I think is happening, is that people are goaded into establishing IDs on various phpBB (etc) sites, and then selling those IDs and website addresses and forum topic links to spam-bot sites.
Captcha will not stop all spam-bots completely, but may slow them down enough to make it "not worth the time/effort".
And when was the last time we saw a spammer "reply" to an existing legitimate post-thread?
They almost always seem to start a new thread - more indicative of a bot than a meat-puppet.


Which in many cases is what security comes down to. One can't always stop every attack, but one can make things excedingly difficult for those doing it. In which case going and harassing the people down the street becomes easier, then spending the time to bother one's self.

Another way of thinking about it is that a lock on one's front door might not make their house impervious to being broaken into. But then again if a burgler knows one has locked doors, and a Rotweiller inside who might bite them upon illegal entry, but also knows the neighboring house has no dog and no such lock; might chose that one's own house is too much of a bother, and the neighbor's house is a less bothersome target. They might burglurize the neighbor instead, and then skip town (to find another less secure target) before the cops start patrolling that neighborhood a bit more #ni-1

Quote:
Nope i'm against it. Mod approval of registration\posts is a total disaster for mods.

I got like 100 notifications every single day and it finally forced me to install anti-spam plugin.


And the flip side is dozens and dozens of threads a day, all of which need deleting, even as the posters begin to grow irritated because of the spammers in question. And tbh, I for one, after their constant spammage am beginning to feel a bit hostile towards these f-ing a-holes who keep posthing this sh**. I'd be of a mind to plant a fricken 2 by 4 in the face of some of these arses who keep posting this stuff, and leave them in need of a doctor's care. If all else failed, that might get them to stop.

But then again, if one can make it excedingly hard for them to post. Hell I'd be all in favor of virus infecting their computer, or burning out their machines, if we had the personell to arrange that sort of security attack to reciprocate on them after all their spammage. Might be fitting karma, for them to get that sort of turn about directed back at them #ni-1 And as this all continues, and they keep flooding the forums with spam that just simply can't be cleaned off fast enough to prevent us from having to see it; we continue to get griefed by the spammers constant spam...
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Duke
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Joined: 14 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nuadormrac wrote:
: : :
And tbh, I for one, after their constant spammage am beginning to feel a bit hostile towards these f-ing a-holes who keep posthing this sh**. I'd be of a mind to plant a fricken 2 by 4 in the face of some of these arses who keep posting this stuff, and leave them in need of a doctor's care. If all else failed, that might get them to stop.
: : :


Just a bit? Sounds like a byte or more (maybe even a quadword). Laughing
(sorry, couldn't resist the geek-humor)
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yoyo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

what we did in the past to get rid of forum spam.

1) We added an additional question to the registration page:
"Was ist di Hauptstadt von Deutschland? a) Berlin, b) München"
This would be difficuilt to read for non german people. But the default answer is the right one. So real people get registered without choosing something here. But the automated bots didn't send the required cgi parameter and didn't get registered.
This was a good meassure for some years. Nearly no spam.

But than, spam again.
2) We added a captcha. But anyway spam happened. I think that in low payed countries are a lot of people who read and anter the captchas.

3) We decided that the first posting must be approved by an mod. If it is spam, the user and the posting is deleted. The spamer doesn't see any success and doesn't come back to our forum. If the posting isn't spam, a moderator approves, which takes less than 24h. With this we are spamfree currently.

yoyo
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Nuadormrac
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's what I noticed, which is where I then created this thread. Someone else actually suggested it before, but....

And yeah, on that question, I think I got it wrong, as I ended up answering Berlin Laughing Course that was the city that was divided with the creation of the iron curtain during the cold war... But then again the Berlin Wall fell when I was in high school and all, and I think the memory of those events, and seeing it on the news stuck out for many of us, alive then... Well, it isn't like they exactly have taught geography in US schools for like ages, they didn't when I graduated from high school, around 2 decades ago Surprised

Well anyhow, we're the ones running into this prob now, you do seem to have resolved it for yourselves...
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Concrete-mixing Moose
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoyo wrote:
Hello,

what we did in the past to get rid of forum spam.

1) We added an additional question to the registration page:
"Was ist di Hauptstadt von Deutschland? a) Berlin, b) München"
This would be difficuilt to read for non german people. But the default answer is the right one. So real people get registered without choosing something here. But the automated bots didn't send the required cgi parameter and didn't get registered.
This was a good meassure for some years. Nearly no spam.

But than, spam again.
2) We added a captcha. But anyway spam happened. I think that in low payed countries are a lot of people who read and anter the captchas.

3) We decided that the first posting must be approved by an mod. If it is spam, the user and the posting is deleted. The spamer doesn't see any success and doesn't come back to our forum. If the posting isn't spam, a moderator approves, which takes less than 24h. With this we are spamfree currently.

yoyo


I vote for number 3! #ni-1
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John Galt 007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Nuadormrac
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya know, I always thought that spaming was akin to beating a dead horse it had been done sooooo many times before About as often as the number of people in Warcraft who keep linking their skills to anal, "at a gay bar", murloc movie night, and asking people

Quote:
Why do they call it an Xbox 360? Because, when you see it, it makes you turn around 360 degrees and walk away


in trade chat. And invariably the last one there gets at least 2 dozen people telling them that if you do a 360, you'll be facing it again, but with bot like precision they repeat the troll, invariably getting more responses, flames (as some grow tired of explaining it, and thinking it's a person begins to suspect they're stupid), and yet say nothing but Surprised Least there though, doing a report spam function, does a temp ignore on the user (but also won't take up limited space on one's ignore list) for a time though, so one doesn't see it again until they fetch another account. But much the same it's very annoying, and somewhat harassing to have to see the fodder over and over. I think getting bombarded by spam bots (at it's worst) like 30 times per minute, all scrolling over my chat screen, for many, many MONTHS to a year or so did it for me. Oh, and lets not forget shutdown spammage combined with all of the above, including Susan Express, game gold providers, etc #ni-1

It's all been done trillions of times, in the last few years alone, and has been all done ad nauseum at least as far back as the mid-1990s, and possibly before if one considers spam from before the advent of the web browser... Surprised Though in those early days, the term PLONK aptly applied to these sorts too #ni-1
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Killerrabbit
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all reality probably need approval for all posts knowing this group. Rolling Eyes

Spam will always be a problem I blame the US military. #ni-1

Ni
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Nuadormrac
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, so much spam does seem to come from China, and it isn't just anectdotal unfortunately Surprised

http://www.projecthoneypot.org/statistics.php

Quote:
Top-5 Countries For
Harvesting
(see top-25)

#1 China (16.3%)
#2 Spain (16.1%)
#3 United States (10.6%)
#4 Romania (6.3%)
#5 Germany (4.3%)


Quote:
Top-5 Countries For
Spam Sending
(see top-25)

#1 China (9.9%)
#2 Brazil (8.9%)
#3 United States (7.1%)
#4 Germany (6.4%)
#5 Russia (6.0%)


About the only thing we out-rank them on from the list is comment spamming, well perhaps there we need to find these lil trolls who create these user IDs for it, get their IP addresses from the server logs, and start lodging complaints with their ISPs, so they lose their internet access for spam complaints/violations of their own respective AUPs and TOS agreements they agreed to in signing up #ni-1
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Killerrabbit
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest we just keep
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Nuadormrac
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It won't be dead enough until the menu no longer contains



Ya know? That stuff tastes about as nasty as double extra anchovies and mushrooms on a pizza, perhaps with a side of squid and seaweed sprinkled on top /barf #evil #ni-1
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