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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: Preparation for a New Shrubber |
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Well now that my new job has been signed and sealed I am expecting over the next 3 months to have enough spare coins to buy a new super duper shrubber.
What I am not sure about at this stage is the form that it should take. So here are my current ideas open to suggestions from all of the Sir Knights.
Option One
Build a server with multiple sockets and purchase the largest number of CPU's/cores that I can afford across the number of sockets.
Been looking at this configuration
http://www.compsource.com/pn/S8812WGM3NR/Tyan_454/
with 4 of these cores:
http://shop.zomp.net/gb_en/fa297ce24c-hp-585330-b21-hp-6128-dl385-g7.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=shoppingengine
the CPU's are the same speed as my current machine, just lots of them 32 in total
Option Two
Build more machines with single sockets which would be more expensive in terms of initial cost plus lots more electricity to boot.
Suggestions for alternatives would be good.
Thanks _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?
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Pooh Bear 27 Prince


Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1358 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Lots of GPUs! |
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Sir Papa Smurph Cries like a little girl


Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4430 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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 _________________ a.k.a. Licentious of Borg.........Resistance Really is Futile.......
and a Really Hoopy Frood who always knows where his Towel is...
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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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4 CPU's Current
Plus new Shrubber running 32 CPU's
How many GPU's would I need to achieve the same results as 32 CPU's running at the same speed as my current AMD Phenom 2ghz 4 core?
On the Prime Grid Sofie Germain project I can process 3 WU's per hour per CPU which gives about 288 units every 24 hours.
With 36 CPU's I work this out to be about 2600 WU's every 24 hrs.
How do GPU's compare in terms of processing power to CPU's?
Can more than 2 GPU's be put in the same machine if so what is the maximum amount at this time?.
Would you need to use a bridge between each of them as in the 2 GPU configuration? _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?
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Gemjunkie Prince


Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 3519 Location: Earth, lately
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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My 5870 is about 30 times faster than my C2Q's (Q9400@2.66GHz & Q9550@2.83GHz) but there's only a few projects using it. Milkyway, Collatz, RC5-72 are the ones I've done, not sure how many more are out there yet.
My PhenomII x6 @3.2Ghz processed 5WU's per hour per core, ~720/day, but since then I've bumped the clock. I had it at 3.72GHz but backed it down slightly to 3.63GHz for maximum stability for twitchy projects like Prime Grid.
I've seen MB's with up to 4 slots for graphics cards but I don't have any with multiples so I can't help you there.
What OS do you have in mind?
Keep us informed of your build, it's very interesting. Good luck!
Post some photos!
 _________________
(older, before split CPID)
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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I am open to OS and willing to learn a new system if needed. Thought about the possibility of Linux though know nothing about it at present.
The new shrubber will be between this machine and the outside world (internet).
Currently running XP Pro.
I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol.
When I start to make the purchases I'll post some pics  _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?
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Cow_tipping Prince

Joined: 19 May 2002 Posts: 2420 Location: On the run
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)
The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:
Quote: | BOINC Projects
1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.
2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.
3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.
4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client
5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files
6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.
7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux
Non-Boinc Projects
1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine
2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).
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source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189 _________________ SAVE THE WHALES. Collect the whole set.
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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Linky doo to a picture of the MB for Option 1
ftp://ftp.tyan.com/img_mobo/S8812_2D_S.jpg
Just found out that this monster can take 12 core Opteron chips WoW that would give me 48 CPU's to munch up WU's with. If I can afford the fastest ones at 2.4 ghz that would be awesome.
Edited because I forgot to say the link is to a picture Lol _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?

Last edited by The Knighty NI on Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hal9000x86 Baron


Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 217 Location: The 10 milllion year project that will find the question to the answer 42.
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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For the bridges that video cards can use, it is not needed if not running sli or crossfire. They can be use them to enhance performance if the program was designed to take advantage of it and if the motherboard was designed to enable it. But for that board you can't run more then one pci-e video card at once anyway. You can put as many video cards in the computer as the motherboard allows, my current msi can hold 4 video cards. But It would take a power supply at least 1.2 Kilowatts to run it for the higher ones. _________________
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Gemjunkie Prince


Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 3519 Location: Earth, lately
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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The Knighty NI wrote: | I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol. |
I lost a PSP after it was 99.7% complete, 70hrs.
Cow_tipping wrote: | GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)
The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:
Quote: | BOINC Projects
1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.
2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.
3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.
4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client
5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files
6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.
7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux
Non-Boinc Projects
1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine
2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).
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source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189 |
The link to the list of supported cards doesn't work.  _________________
(older, before split CPID)
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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Ouch 3 days work lost I really feel for you  _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?
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Gemjunkie Prince


Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 3519 Location: Earth, lately
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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I disconnected/swapped out components gradually and narrowed the problem down to the CPU or MB. I replaced the MB and haven't seen a problem since.
I imagine that 48-core shrubber would do wonders in Folding if you could get the 64-bit Linux SMP client running.
Do they charge much more for quad channel memory modules? I'm guessing you're not planning on the full 256GB.
 _________________
(older, before split CPID)
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Cow_tipping Prince

Joined: 19 May 2002 Posts: 2420 Location: On the run
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Gemjunkie wrote: | The Knighty NI wrote: | I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol. |
I lost a PSP after it was 99.7% complete, 70hrs.
Cow_tipping wrote: | GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)
The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:
Quote: | BOINC Projects
1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.
2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.
3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.
4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client
5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files
6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.
7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux
Non-Boinc Projects
1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine
2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).
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source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189 |
The link to the list of supported cards doesn't work.  |
Oops, I didn't check the link. Quotes in quotes are not always a good thing.
Here is the mentioned link from my 'original' quoted post: http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/forum_thread.php?id=1505 _________________ SAVE THE WHALES. Collect the whole set.
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Gemjunkie Prince


Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 3519 Location: Earth, lately
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Cow_tipping wrote: | Gemjunkie wrote: | The Knighty NI wrote: | I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol. |
I lost a PSP after it was 99.7% complete, 70hrs.
Cow_tipping wrote: | GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)
The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:
Quote: | BOINC Projects
1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.
2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.
3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.
4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client
5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files
6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.
7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux
Non-Boinc Projects
1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine
2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).
|
source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189 |
The link to the list of supported cards doesn't work.  |
Oops, I didn't check the link. Quotes in quotes are not always a good thing.
Here is the mentioned link from my 'original' quoted post: http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/forum_thread.php?id=1505 |
Neither are links to links.
Thanks for the new one.
 _________________
(older, before split CPID)
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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Not decided which option and/or configuration to go for yet.
If I go down the server route with that MB and 4 processors I will have to check how memory has to be placed relevant to the cores. Also have to make sure that I purchase 4 processors exactly alike in terms of releases and firmware inside them.
Possible memory options
1. If memory has to be balanced in pairs per processor I will go for quad channel memory at 1333mhz and put it in in 16gb chunks per processor total 64gb to start. Then purchase 64gb chunks per month over the next 3 months.
2. If I have the option of putting in single sticks per processor then I will go for 8gb per processor totaling 32gb to start off with. Purchase the remaining 224gb over the next 3 months
3. The last option if I don't have to apply memory per processor will get 16gb to start with. As above bump to the full 256gb over the following 3 months.
Factors I am considering as my main criteria
1. Contain everything that is needed for a monster shrubber in one box.
2. Total power usage in watts when running for all components - total for these processors is 420w at 105w each. Still to find out wattage for remaining components. Current guess is going to be about 650w or about 220w more than current machine.
3. Low noise levels (I rent so it will have to be in my bedroom - my current machine is so quite I hardly notice that it is switched on and running 24/7).
 _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?
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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the linkage Cow_tipping.
My next avenue of thought and investigation GPU stuff
 _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?
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Pooh Bear 27 Prince


Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1358 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the GPU stuff is behind what is really happening.
Primegrid AP26 has been retired.
Primegrid PPS Sieve now has CUDA and ATI CL applications.
DNECT is a project that can use both CUDA and ATI, but be warned, they take all the work they do for their project and insert it into the main project, which you can do separately (non-BOINC) and get credit for yourself and KWSN team.
There are probably others. |
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Mildew KWSN ArchBishop


Joined: 13 Oct 2002 Posts: 2617 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:01 am Post subject: |
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Server hardware comes with a huge premium, since companies are willing to pay extra for reliability and stuff like virtualization.
You could get a complete mid-range system for the price of a single 4P 12-core Opteron processor.
I assume you need registered RAM for that thing? That's more expensive to.
Why even consider more than 8GB per processor? You will never use it.
For the cost of a single 48-core Opteron system, you could get four 6-core systems with decent GPUs and still have lots of money to spend. Power consumption may be up a bit, but noise levels would probably still be down (server hardware isn't exactly optimized for living room conditions). You would get less points in CPU projects, but the GPUs would get your overall score higher. _________________
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur? |
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The Knighty NI Prince

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Lost in space on a rather small Blue ping pong ball. :)
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Very good point you make about more than 8gb per processor Mildew. After I wrote the above I was thinking about exactly that.
I came to the conclusion that if I put a max 48gb memory in the machine that would probably far more than would be used except for really big WU's yet allow up to 1gb per core just slightly above your suggestion
Gonna have to consider the rest of what you have written before I reply  _________________ What is that in the Shrubbery?
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Cow_tipping Prince

Joined: 19 May 2002 Posts: 2420 Location: On the run
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of memory can be very useful if you are planning to use VM's for projects as Dimes or Majestic-12.
 _________________ SAVE THE WHALES. Collect the whole set.
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