KWSN Orbiting Fortress

Al Dente · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: A Change of Direction

or, Let's Kick Us Some Ass

I've been wrestling with a severe philosophical quandry of late (or maybe I was just getting a bit bored/complacent), and have now reached a major decision, instantly rescindable at any whim that may come upon me.

I've got enough shrubbing power these days to take on (virtually) anyone on the team in my chosen projects, which to date have favoured the physical and medical sciences, with mathematics taking a very low priority. But this doesn't present that much of a challenge now, and it's a challenge that I desire, relish and crave.

I've alsorecently completed a fairly comprehensive survey of all BOINC (and some non-BOINC) projects and realised that, with a bit of effort, the standing of KWSN can be mightily advanced in areas that I, personally, might consider relatively unimportant in the advancement of Mankind's knowledge and well-being, but to which I will now direct The Dentery, with the avowed goal of kicking the asses of some of the teams currently placed above us.

At this point altruism rears it's ugly head and forces it's way to the fore.

Now, be it known to all kNi!ghts that from this day forth, henceforth and forthwith (and fully cogniscent of the fact that there is no forth rule) that I, Sir Al Dente, a.k.a. Sir Toothy/Chewy and other, no doubt less savoury, names will be directing my efforts into promoting the needs, kudos and prestige of The Knights Who Say Ni! and putting The Dentery to shrub on projects that enhance the Team's position in the World standings, putting aside any potential personal kudos and glory in the process.

So, Ib Rasmussen - Malaria is yours.

HoC - take the #1 spot in Spinhenge, see if I care (Sob, Sob).

Sir Brian - you've possibly earned a reprieve in WCG (but see below).

Einstein, Rosetta and Cosmology will be allowed to coast to a halt.

(N.B. There is just possibly a wee hint of an element of face-saving inherent in those statements.)

The Chosen Ones:

APS (Atmospheric Perturbation Something or other). Working on how localised inputs (e.g. pollution) mix into the atmosphere around them and permeate the overall global warming problem; I rate this project as being of high importance, so quite a large proportion of The Dentery will be pointed in this direction. KWSN is currently in 37th place, with the Top 10 beckoning winsomely. (N.B. James Dorsey is gettin' hisself hitched this weekend, so there won't be any work for 2-3 weeks).

Leiden Not of great importance in the Great Scheme, but ½ dozen places (from 18th) are there for the taking in the next few months.

RCNas above, but the top 20 looks singularly alluring from our current lowly 35th position.

Lattice Similar work to SIMAP, but be warned that it needs 300k+ RAM to run, so 1GB is useful. We're currently in the #18 spot, but the top 5 is possible with a bit of application.

SIMAP Only occasional work, normally about a week's worth from the 1st of the month. We've just hit the front page (#20), but another 5 places are available with a modicum of patience.

Tanpaku Similar work to Rosetta but using a different approach. We're currently languishing in 25th, but 15 is possible with an injection of shrubpower .

uFluids In 21st and barely shrubbing. A concerted attack can yield a top 10 place relatively quickly.

WCG It is mightily displeasing to my all my senses of rightness that KWSN is languishing outside the Top 100 teams (currently 106th). OK, I know it's a relatively low-scoring project, but needs must. A large enough proportion of The Dentery will be directed into attempting to rectify this unfortunate and demeaning position.

YoYo A fairly new mathematical project, with not much happening on the KWSN front. A bit of shrubbing can move us from 22nd to 12th in short order.

DIMES Uses almost no CPU cycles and very little bandwidth; surely this should be a MUST in any self-respecting kNi!ghts armoury. I expect to see a lot more of you contributing a lorra, lorra points to this (vaguely useful to Mankind) project. We're currently 7th, with 5th beckoning.

Majestic Sucks up bandwidth like a sozzled wine-taster, but not a lot of CPU (perhaps 5%). If you've got an unlimited broadband account and would like to help, we're trying, with a fair degree of success, to chase down Xtreme Systems and Free-DC for the World #2 spot.

Riesel LLR (see The Word According To Da Grizz here).

DepSpid & SuperLink may also be added, if and when they return.

So, that's what I'll be concentrating on in the near future (at 1000 to 2000 RAC each), with the possibility of a couple of other non-BOINC projects being added.

If any of you kNi!ghts out there in Cyberland are suffering from the same sort of quandy that I have confronted, then please feel free to join me in the Quest for World Domination, with the projects being attacked subject to review as the occasion demands. After all, there's only so much that one shrubber can do alone, so a bit of support (if only moral) wouldn't come amiss.

A side-effect of this activity occurs in DC-Vault, where achieving the above aims would result in an additional 3000 or so points over the next 3-4 months, a useful contribution to raising our standing with that august organisation.

Go, kNi!ghts, go; and a hearty #ni-1

to you all.

P.S. In case any of you are still wondering, this has been a truly heartfelt plea (and I really mean that most sincerely folks) for a bit of cooperation/assistance/understanding/sympathy/commiseration in promoting KWSN in the world of BOINCing, without, as far as I can discern (Wood/Trees, etc.), any non-altruistic personal motives...

I think...

Therefore I am....

A Loonie..... (Note the CORRECT speeling!)

Probably......

Nurse! I think a little medication might be in order...

Err, fairly soon....

Like NOW!

Oops, too late.
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mohrorless · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:44 am Post subject:

You go Toothy!

What is project Dimes? Is it BOINCable? I do not recall that one. If it is BOINCable I might be interested.
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Al Dente · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:44 am Post subject:

It's not BOINC, but runs quite happily alongside (I've got it on all my shrubbers).

It's an Israeli project to map the internet, uses PING & TRACEROUTE, bandwidth consumption in the kb/s, processor use way under 1%, so negligible impact on anything else.

Try here. There's a fairly decent writeup on what they're doing. Then go to the downloads page, use the utility to check you've got Java, then go. Your Moniker and team (KWSN is 6 clicks down in the list) get entered when it first starts up. On the settings tab set the delay to the minimum of a measurement every 15 seconds to maximise your scoring rate.

They go offline fairly often, mainly at weekends, and their homebrew stats are worse than useless (use Free-DC), but with the almost free points, I just shrug and let them come back up in their own sweet time.

#ni-1

P.S. I've just checked and the data server seems to be offline, but it'll be back on Monday when they return to the office; just grin and bear it. Very Happy

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Killerrabbit · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:43 am Post subject:

I wish I had some of that shrubbing power to my accounts.

I have been involved or have been involved in all those projects you mentioned.

I am always shrubbing for KWSN world domination, always. I just go to the frontiers on new projects and shrub them for awhile.

Ni
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Al Dente · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject:

Your role as resident Project Whore and Pathfinder is invaluable; I know I've started on several projects that I wouldn't have considered or found until you pointed them out. And as several, including me, have said in the past "Every Shrub is precious". It doesn't matter where they come from, cos every point takes us in the right direction, and it's the sum of many small shrubbers that make a formidable force.

New or unfashionable projects can often yield the best "progress per crunch" results, whereas adding a couple of thousand RAC to a big project like Einstein or Rosetta hardly makes any difference.

Now, if just a few of those 2/3rds of KWSN who only crunch SETI could be persuaded to come out of the closet and add another project or two, then we could make some real progress in the World standings. Anyone got any ideas on how to twist a few arms?

On reflection, I suspect a large part of the reason for my change of heart is that the fun element has gone out of it for me. I haven't been on a good taunting expedition since the FadBeens, so hopefully this excercise will provide a few oportunities for KWSN to flex it's literary skills on some other poor unsuspecting teams. Laughing

Sorry about the rambling, I just popped in for a quick glance before I went to cook dinner, but ¾ of a bottle of a rather palatable Madiran (still on an empty stomach) later and this is the result.

#ni-1

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mohrorless · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject:

If that is the result, you should drink more often.
_________________
Fetch me the Holy Hand Grenade!

#Usa

Keeper of the Unending keg of PGGBs
Taunter in Training
Campaign Manager for Sir Shrubbery

Plus

Mildew · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:48 am Post subject:

KWSN world domination is a noble cause indeed! Very Happy

I enjoy shrubbing for the more obscure projects, since you can reach a pretty good position even with modest computing powers.
Just made a top 200 spot in Riesel. What would it take to do that in Seti? Rolling Eyes

I look forward to watching KWSN climbing in the stats. Good luck to you Sir Chewy! #ni-1

JerWA · Prince Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 1497 Location: WA, USA

Sounds like fun to me. I'm doing pretty much the same thing, except I'm only aiming for 500 RAC/day on each project. Once I hit that mark I find another project to add hehe. Unfortunately, my plans to have another quad in the farm by the end of the year are looking a bit shaky, so that just leaves the same old list doing the same old work. I've also gotten a bit bored with it, and have pretty much stopped monitoring it on a daily basis. I check it every few days and see if anything has blown up, and otherwise let it do it's own thing.

I did have to kick CPDN in the ass, as it filled up the quad with >100 days of work for 4 cores (currently estimating 325 days left) despite sharing the system with 3 other projects. Grr. I'm letting it spool out the work, but no more new work, and I'll probably drop the project for good (again, this being the first time since ~2004 I've worked it) after that and go looking for something else.

SIMAP is still fun, re-enabling the project on all the systems and letting it run amok for a few days. I don't pause other projects, or even stop projects from downloading work any more, I just let BOINC get totally confused trying to fit an extra project onto each system (none of which "time share" projects to cores) and then work it out when SIMAP work runs out hehe.

As for "main stream" projects, I still say it all counts. Einstein for instance, I'm averaging only ~350-400/day there, but I'm ranked under 7,000 world, under 2,900 USA, and ~55th in the team. Those aren't bad stats considering my RAC is currently only 338.

Hell, even SETI, the 500lb Gorilla of BOINC projects, really isn't as big as it seems. My RAC is only 516, and I just broke under 12,000 world rank. While being in the top 12,000 may not seem like much, there ARE over 600,000 active SETI users hehe.

The more obscure/newer projects like Malaria Control show very clearly that there really is only a small portion of each projects user base that's truly "active." 346 RAC = top 300 world wide, top 80 USA, 8th in our team.

I do think, however, that WCG is going to start getting more popular now that they've fully migrated to BOINC. I've actually started losing ground in the standings lately, even though my RAC hasn't moved much. That's a sure sign of a new people Smile

. Oh, WCG is also the only project I have nearly 5% of the teams total points lol.
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Al Dente · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:22 am Post subject:

JerWa, I'm looking at it this way.

Adding 500 RAC to SETI will make no disernable difference to the Team's standing in the world, would get you 88th RAC within the team. 3 months shrubbing at that rate would get you just into the top 500 in the team.

Compare that with, say, Lattice. There, an extra 500 RAC would elevate KWSN from 9th to 4th in RAC, give you 12th highest RAC in the world/2nd in KWSN and 3 months shrubbing would get you into the world top 20/2nd in KWSN. Plus 3 months would mean an extra place or two for KWSN, perhaps 5th rather than 7th.

That's what I mean by shrubbing value, or perhaps I should call it "Shubberificness". Laughing

So when are you moving over?
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Dagger · Prince Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 2918 Location: BC Canada

I've added YoYo to my projects on boinc.. I was doing the non-boinc version. Nice though seeing a boinc'd version of OGR.

Al Dente · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject:

First change to the Grand Plan.

uFluids is playing up, so I've abandoned it with a bit of a tirade here.

I'm quite happy to put up with a few problemettes, but the extent of them gives serious cause for concern.

I may have a nose around in a few months to see if they've got their act together.

Never mind, that's even more crunch for the other projects, and I only lost ~8 core-days of shrubbing. Crying or Very sad

@ Dagger. Welcome and thanks. I've just returned my first Yoyo WU and am rather pleased that 19¼ hours has generated 553 points or 29/hour. That puts it higher than Cosmology and twice Rosetta credit. I think I'm going to like Yoyo. Smile

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LanDroid · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject:

You inspired me to re-attach to Tanpaku. Go Knights!
#ni-2

Al Dente · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:56 am Post subject:

Thanks LanDroid, that's a bit more help for Sir Grizz and a couple of others patiently shrubbing away on this one. Here's to the first place gain. #Beer

Anyone for Lattice? I've added ~2½k, but we dropped a place yesterday and there's a couple of other teams bearing down on us. I can hold them off, but real progress needs a bit more than I can manage at the moment.
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Mildew · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:39 am Post subject:

I added Cosmology a few days ago. As a result, my Riesel stats barely changed while my overall score is up with almost a thousand point per day! Surprised

Are there any kind of rules for scoring between projects, or can they just hand out whatever they want?
This way I think the overall boinc stats is a little missleading, since it all depends on what projects you are running.

BTW, didn't KWSN use to be an international team?
Looking at boincstats it now seems like I'm shrubbing for the United States...

mohrorless · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:09 am Post subject:

mohrorless · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:33 am Post subject:

Ok, I found it and added it....now I am getting a Trojan virus warning:

Mildew · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:39 am Post subject:

Speaking of YoYo...

Looks like Sir Bwian is UOTD! #ni-1

Al Dente · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:04 am Post subject:

It sounds as if you've had a download error of some sort, mine just started working.

Try resetting the project to delete all the files and start again.

@ Mildew.

There is a standard scoring system defined on the BOINC site (10 points per hour per GFlop), but different projects have quite disparate interpretations of this; BURP is about the lowest (89%), up to SIMAP at 200%, with a couple of real rogue projects (Docking @ 350%, nanoHive @ 400%). Then you've got the projects like Cosmology which grant a fixed credit per shrub - I found I was averaging ~200%.

So, yes. You can pick just the high-scoring projects to give your RAC a boost, but you only gain in overall BOINC, not in the project. Hence my comment about low-scoring WCG in the top post; it gives about 125%.

With a typical mix of projects you should average ~15 cobblestones/hour/GFlop.

As an added complication there are some projects that run more efficiently on Intel and others are better on AMD shrubbers. For instance, comparing an Intel E6300 with an AMD 3800x2 (which produce about the same overall RAC), Cosmology scores about 35% better on Intel while Tanpaku on AMD does about 30% better. You takes your money and pays your choice.

(I've got these figures to hand because I've developed an Excel spreadsheet to help me decide which mix of projects to run on which machines with what resource shares to get my overall RACs into the right ballpark.That's why I can, with a fair degree of confidence, add, say 2500 RAC to Lattice).
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KWSN-HoC · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:56 am Post subject:

Added my Linux Box to Lattice as Spinhenge doesn't have enough Beta WU's for Linux clients .......

.... I'll see if there will follow more.

Wink

Cheers

HoC
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mohrorless · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: