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rotciv KOTHRT
Prince
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1482
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:17 am Post subject: Thought for the Day |
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Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant"
is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist ".
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mohrorless
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Sir Hamster of Elderberry
KWSN ArchBishop
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 5117
Location: Beer City, Cheese Quadrant
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Thought for the Day |
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| rotciv KOTHRT wrote: | Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant"
is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist ".
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At risk of starting an argument ...
[opinion]
While we certainly do have an illegal immigration problem here in the US, but I can't agree that the immigrants are solely at fault. We have created a businesses environment that depends on low-wage workers, and consumers (you know who you are) demand the low cost goods they help produce (they produce the produce, among other things). Blaming the immigrants for the problem seems hypocritical to me.
[/opinion]
Wait ... let me get out the marshmallows and a coat hanger ... 'cause I think I'm about to get toasted. 
OK, ready now ... Flame on.
ni! i!u |
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Eaving
Prince
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 694
Location: Portland, Or.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just to help take a little fire from you Sir Hamster I have to agree fully. Most Americans are not willing to pay the costs associated with actual American produced products.
Beyond that everyone that lives here IS an immigrant. All of us. And before anyone tries playing the Native American card, they just have 10,000 years seniority on the rest of us, they still hiked in.
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jbyram2
Prince
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 7129
Location: NMoP EpISdn
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Come to think of it, even Noah took a boat to where he ended up....
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mohrorless
Mail Order Goat Bride
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 11206
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Never mind who got here first, I think legality is big. There are a lot of people that came here the last 500 years legally. more than have come illegally. It is not difficult to come here legally. My inlaws are from Ireland and they all came here legally. So I don't want to hear how impossible it is (they agree, it's not hard).
My main problem is the people that come here and expect us to kowtow to them and change to suit them. Whatever happened to the days when someone would come here legally and work their tails off to assimilate to the culture and do their best to learn the language, fit in and work to make something of themselves? Now they want to come here and change all the signs so they can read them. I need to learn enough of other languages to be able to communicate with them, because they can't be bothered to learn English. AND they want to come here and collect Social Security and or Welfare so they can sit home and wathch tv while I am working my  off to keep food on the table and a roof over my head.
As for Americans not wanting to pay the costs, "HELLO!!!!" WE ARE PAYING THEM ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!! THe numbers would not change if the corporations were not pulling a fast one and trying to make billions in profit on everything. You have executives making BILLIONS when they are FIRED from the jobs they couldn't do. WTF?!?!?!?!? If I get fired, no one gives me a "Golden Parachute".
I know, I know.... 
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jonnyv
Happy Fun Admin
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 2098
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Orson Scott Card on immigration.
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Sir Hamster of Elderberry
KWSN ArchBishop
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 5117
Location: Beer City, Cheese Quadrant
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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That's a good read, and I agree: The laws are broken and not functioning as intended. Sir Mohrorless is also correct: we are paying for the malfunction. |
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mohrorless
Mail Order Goat Bride
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 11206
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Ok....blood pressure has returned to "normal" levels.
Update. I have nothing against people that want to come to America and make a better life for themselves and their families. I only as that they come here legally and work for the "American Dream". Othere countries don't change for the people that move there, why should we.
If someone wants to move to a country, then they (presumably) want to go live in that country, not the one they are currently in.
[soapbox]
[rant]
If the country you came from is so freakin' great, WHY DID YOU LEAVE?
[/rant]
[/soapbox]
Off to see if I can find something to calm me down now.....   
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Sir Hamster of Elderberry
KWSN ArchBishop
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 5117
Location: Beer City, Cheese Quadrant
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Sorry about the BP. 
Here ... have a marshmallow ...
Dan |
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Michelle
Moistened Bint
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10233
Location: At my desk
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| John wrote: | I have nothing against people that want to come to America and make a better life for themselves and their families. I only as that they come here legally and work for the "American Dream". Othere countries don't change for the people that move there, why should we.
If someone wants to move to a country, then they (presumably) want to go live in that country, not the one they are currently in. |
I think you'll find the same thing in many countries. Here too. A lot of places here in Queensland, especially Cairns and the Gold Coast, have Japanese as well as English signs for the Japanese tourists. We get a lot of refugees, legal and illegal. Heck, I remember a mate of my father's bringing a whole crew of illegal Indonesian fishermen over to our house when I was a kid and we lived in Cairns. We all need to learn to be more tolerant of other cultures and lend a helping hand to those in need whether they are from our own country or from another country, but by the same token, anyone who moves to another country should try to fit in with the culture and customs of their new home and try to adapt without having to completely lose their own heritage.
It's a sad fact of life though, that they do tend to take their ethnic problems with them. I don't feel that's right at all. We have a lot of problems here, mainly in Sydney and Melbourne I think, where different ethnic groups who are fighting in their homeland tend to continue here on a smaller scale.
I'm probably going to upset a lot of people but the U.S. is not the greatest country in the world. Then again neither is Australia, Great Britain, France, New Zealand and the list goes on. My ex spent a lot of time in the U.S. with his first job on a boat overseas and he could not believe the amount of crime, poverty and drug problems over there. We have exactly the same problems here on a smaller scale being a smaller country. No country is perfect, Utopia does not exist. We just have to make the best of things and thank <insert deity of choice> that we were fortunate enough not to have been born in a country where people are dying of malnutrition all around us and there is nothing we can do.
I have no idea where I was going with that so I'll shut up now.
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mohrorless
Mail Order Goat Bride
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 11206
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Michelle wrote: | | I'm probably going to upset a lot of people but the U.S. is not the greatest country in the world. Then again neither is Australia, Great Britain, France, New Zealand and the list goes on. My ex spent a lot of time in the U.S. with his first job on a boat overseas and he could not believe the amount of crime, poverty and drug problems over there. We have exactly the same problems here on a smaller scale being a smaller country. No country is perfect, Utopia does not exist. |
I never said that the US is the greatest country. Yes there is crime here (not sure when the ex was here - but there has been a difference in how the police departments are fighting it and crime is going down), but that is (unfortunately) one of the costs of the amount of freedom we have in this country. If you crack down to the extent you would need to in order to eliminate crime, you would also be eliminating most, if not all, of the personal liberties that this country was founded on.
So, while we may not be perfect, at least we're working on it.
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Tenebra
Prince
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 2053
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim of a Galaxy far far away
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Immigrants are here in Greece too, especially Albanians, Pakistani, and other races. Chinese opening stores everywhere. And I agree, people who come in Greece, should be assimilated and not try to built "ethnic minorities". In fact we in Greece, have some minorities in the North, people that consider themselves to be Turks, instead of Greeks and try to do all sorts of damages. If they want to be a religious minority that's fine, there is freedom of religion, but you are in Greece, you've been born and raised in Greece, how come you still want to be called a Turk? If that's the case then go and live in Turkey, and not Greece.
It's fine if you want to keep the language and tradition of your ancestors, but you have to consider where you were born and where you live.
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belenus
Prince
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: Pale blue dot (Aviles, Asturies, Spain, Europe, Eurasia, North of Africa, South of Arctic....)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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The question is (I think): who is not an immigrant?
Human beings have always been moving and occupying new land, that was already inhabited sometimes. For example, in "my" little piece of land have been Neanderthals (and surely they were not the first), Cro-Magnons, pre-Celts, Celts, Romans, Visigods, some Moors, some Vikings, some Gauls.... and in the whole Spain also, Phoenicians, Greeks, Iberians, Punics, etc, etc. So who I am now? Have I got a right to put a limit to South American immigrants (who have come by thousands from Ecuador, Colombia, Bolivia..., as Romanians, Bulgarians, Ukranians have....) when Spaniards went there centuries ago and stole their gold... I don't think so.
You may tell I'm a dreamer (....) but I think we humans must forget the word and the feeling TRIBE, which is the main problem due to politic, religious or ethnical reasons. Then the world will become a better place to live in.
I'm afraid I will soon be awaken. Ni!
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mohrorless
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 11206
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Tenebra wrote: | Immigrants are here in Greece too, especially Albanians, Pakistani, and other races. Chinese opening stores everywhere. And I agree, people who come in Greece, should be assimilated and not try to built "ethnic minorities". In fact we in Greece, have some minorities in the North, people that consider themselves to be Turks, instead of Greeks and try to do all sorts of damages. If they want to be a religious minority that's fine, there is freedom of religion, but you are in Greece, you've been born and raised in Greece, how come you still want to be called a Turk? If that's the case then go and live in Turkey, and not Greece.
It's fine if you want to keep the language and tradition of your ancestors, but you have to consider where you were born and where you live. |
THANK YOU......my point exactly (except for the Greece part )
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belenus
Prince
Joined: 08 May 2007
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Location: Pale blue dot (Aviles, Asturies, Spain, Europe, Eurasia, North of Africa, South of Arctic....)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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A question. Does anybody think, as it is my deshire, that one day we will be all Earth Citizens, instead of Americans, Peruvians, Russians, Greeks, Koreans or Italians?
As borders are a man-made invention, we should also abolish them.
Yes, we are not ready yet, but.... who knows tomorrow?
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jonnyv
Happy Fun Admin
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 2098
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I think that will happen eventually. Maybe not in my life time, but eventually.
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mohrorless
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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It might happen, none of us will be around to see it though.....
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Mildew
KWSN ArchBishop
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 2617
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: |
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One day you shall all be Swedish!!! 
Mwaaahahahahahaaaa!!!!!11  |
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Sir BaldyHead
KWSN Castellan
Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 352
Location: detention, 1st cell on the right
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| belenus wrote: | A question. Does anybody think, as it is my deshire, that one day we will be all Earth Citizens, instead of Americans, Peruvians, Russians, Greeks, Koreans or Italians?
As borders are a man-made invention, we should also abolish them.
Yes, we are not ready yet, but.... who knows tomorrow? |
Compare the way ppl communicated 500 years ago with how we do that now... global village etc. Virtually it's becoming more difficult every day to keep borders and boundaries in place (look at the Chinese for instance having difficulty keeping 'their' internet an intranet). Although our way of communicating has its own risks of getting out of hand (flaming etc), we CAN try to use it to help get the physical borders down sometime in the future. Don't wait for governing bodies to decide on things. Go for the revolution here: change bottom up. If it weren't for a popular uprising the Berlin wall would still be there....
And once we're ready we do have the ultimate weapon to tear those borders down: Sir Fart
Ni! Ni! Ni!
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