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CPU temperature
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Tenebra
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:53 am    Post subject: CPU temperature Reply with quote

Well, fellow knights, have myself a bit of a problem. My CPU, w Pentium D at 3.00 Ghz Dual Core, seems to be always at a much higher temperature than it's suppose to be. Temperature monitors have the CPU working between 78 degrees Celsius and 90 degrees Celsius!!! In order to improve the conditions I changed the fan with a nice Zallman one, put some Arctic sSilver (just a tiny bit as instructed), after cleaning up the CPU with a specialized solution.

However nothing has improved. Any ideas? Could it be that the temperature monitor is wrong somehow? Could it be that the sensors are malfunctioning and report a much higher temperature?

Anyways, I am getting a laptop in about 10 days (have to wait for the extra memory bit I asked for), in order to back up files and have a PC to work in case the CPU fries. Already have an external USB drive so I can backup important files.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure there is plenty of air flow (remove any dust bunnies that have set up house in there Wink ).

Check the fans too. If they aren't working right, there might not be enough air moving through the case.
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JerWA
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If changing the cooler and fan didn't make any difference then it's likely you're not moving enough (any?) air into/out of the case. Better heatsink will just put MORE heat into the case, and a better fan just swirl around the hot air.

Though I find it surprising you saw no change, I'd try a quick experiment to see if it's an airflow issue. It's easy: Take the side case off your PC, and put a normal fan (like a desk fan or whatever) a small distance away, blowing air at the PC (nothing crazy, low setting at 2 foot away should be more than enough). If temps drop a whole lot then your heatsink is working but not getting enough airflow into the case. If there's no change then the sensor is probably busted, or your ambient air temp is really high. Typically it won't be a problem with the thermal compound, or the PC would self destruct or trigger it's self preservation routines almost immediately from the heat.

If you suspect the sensor(s), you should be able to get a temperature probe with a tiny LCD display for a few dollars and it'll tell you for sure.
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Last edited by JerWA on Thu May 10, 2007 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you tell a non-PC person how to check the temp on my PC's? TIA
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JerWA
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alpha_fruit wrote:
Could you tell a non-PC person how to check the temp on my PC's? TIA
Download & install Sandra Lite: http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/

Run it, go to Processors, and scroll down to the "Sensors" section. It's also listed under the mother/main board information.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerWA wrote:
alpha_fruit wrote:
Could you tell a non-PC person how to check the temp on my PC's? TIA
Download & install Sandra Lite: http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/

Run it, go to Processors, and scroll down to the "Sensors" section. It's also listed under the mother/main board information.



If you're a little daunted by the options in Sandra then try speedfan

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php



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Tenebra
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fans are working, and I clean them up periodically. As for the air flow issue, I will check that, although I did select the case exactly for it to have a good air flow. But might have been wrong about it.

Thing is I have noticed that if the CPU overheats, it shuts down automatically. (when I was doing some overclocking settings)
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alpha_fruit wrote:
Could you tell a non-PC person how to check the temp on my PC's? TIA




Always glad to be of service! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir Hamster of Elderberry wrote:
alpha_fruit wrote:
Could you tell a non-PC person how to check the temp on my PC's? TIA




Always glad to be of service! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenebra wrote:
The fans are working, and I clean them up periodically. As for the air flow issue, I will check that, although I did select the case exactly for it to have a good air flow. But might have been wrong about it.

Thing is I have noticed that if the CPU overheats, it shuts down automatically. (when I was doing some overclocking settings)


Just out of dumb curiosity, is the case in any sort of enclosure like a computer desk or something? But only way to cool my monster shrubber was to really kickup the airflow in the case,

One fan behind the cpu blowing out
One fan in side panel sucking in

Two fans lower front also sucking in.

PSU has 2 fans one sucking heat from the case up into the PSU and blowing it out the back of the PSU.

Also not uncommon to have a sensor probe give false readings especialy depending on where it is, do you have a case sensor also?

On an older MB i had the sensor was directly under the CPU but was raised up high enough to touch CPU but designed to not touch and would give high false readings.
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Tenebra
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 2 fans in the front taking in air and a fan in the back removing the hot air. CPU fan and GPU fan as well.
No mobo sensor I'm afraid.

P.S. I am getting the laptop from the company. I could replace the mobo and CPU if it fries, but would prefer not to before Xmas.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like this issues comes up a lot for anyone involved in distributed computing. IIRC, Pentium D's are supposed to run at 64C or below for safe operation. Mine always hangs around in the upper 60's no matter how I slice it.

My Pentium M in my laptop will run well into the 70's C if I just let BOINC do its thing. It drags the other components with it, with the hard drive wandering into the mid to upper 50's and other parts of the chipset hitting temps as much as 10C above the CPU. On a couple of occassions I've come back to find it all the way into the upper 80's or higher, heating the keypad and case to the point that I could barely touch it to shut the thing down. I've also tried throttling in v5.8 of BOINC, but that has just caused such awesome spikes or dips in temp that the CPU could not be happy.

Just today I've decided to try UNDERclocking or under-volting the CPU, which seems like blasphemy in a world of ever-increasing performance. It turns out that running a 1395MHz CPU at 598MHz (using Notebook Hardware Control Personal Edition sotware rather than hardware hacks) will keep my Pentium M 20 degrees cooler, and the surrounding area 30C cooler. So now the question is, do I let lappy BOINC 24x7 at under 600MHz, or do I restrict BOINCing to times when I'm in front of lappy, keeping an eye on things? (And yes, I clean and check for dust at the intake duct and fan and heatsink area.)
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised the CPU throttling isn't working for you. One of my remote machines is set at 90% and it maintains it almost religiously, fluctuating only a few percent above and below the cap set in BOINC. What were you trying to limit it to? I bet you wouldn't have to go much lower than 80 or 75% CPU load for temps to stay better behaved. Nothing so severe as limiting it to the 40% you are by underclocking.

Plus, depending on how it's accomplishing that underclock, you could be slowing everything else down too (if it's doing it via FSB drops) like memory throughput.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The underclock is just taking advantage of the Pentium M's dynamic processing, which is controlled by voltage fluctuations. The Pentium M in its default settings already moves from 600-1400 in 200Mhz intervals depending on load. Regardless of BOINC settings at 70%-90%, the temp graphs look like an EKG over a 10-15 degree Celcius range. At first I thought this was due to dynamic stepping of the clock, which would move to 600Mhz every time BOINC took a break, but then I forced the CPU to run at 1400MHz constantly, regardless of load and the temps fluctuated the same. With the forced underclock to 600Mhz, BOINC at 100% results in a steady temp between 54-56C 24x7.

I mostly run Prime Grid on the laptop, and each shrub now takes 28 minutes whereas they used to finish in about 15:00 of CPU time (not real time), which when factoring in BOINC's throttling down to 70% or so isn't that big of a change.

My plan is to slowly work up from 600 to 800 to 1000 and see if temps are manageable. BOINC at 1400 just seems to be too much for lappy right now.

The changes I'm doing are easily undone by software so yeah, if I need all the performance I can get, e.g. when composing and editing music, I just set everything back to factory default or force the clock to 1400Mhz.
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Lloyd M.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: CPU temperature Reply with quote

Tenebra wrote:
Well, fellow knights, have myself a bit of a problem. My CPU, w Pentium D at 3.00 Ghz Dual Core, seems to be always at a much higher temperature than it's suppose to be. Temperature monitors have the CPU working between 78 degrees Celsius and 90 degrees Celsius!!! In order to improve the conditions I changed the fan with a nice Zallman one, put some Arctic sSilver (just a tiny bit as instructed), after cleaning up the CPU with a specialized solution.

However nothing has improved. Any ideas? Could it be that the temperature monitor is wrong somehow? Could it be that the sensors are malfunctioning and report a much higher temperature?


Criminy, and here I was so worried when my AMD rig was running at 55-58C! (the HSF isn't up the the OC, and the case air circulation isn't that great)

Yes, I do have an idea. Somewhere on an OC forum, I read that Artic Silver needs to be heat cycled to work properly. If, like me and most other BOINCers, you run your CPU just as much as you can, it could be that the Artic Silver hasn't "set" yet. I would suggest powering the rig down, leaving it for a while (maybe 30-60 minutes), powering it back up to heat soak it, and repeating the process three or four times.

If it were my rig running that hot, and I was trying this, I would take a case side off and plop a window fan (on exhaust) right beside the computer. Otherwise you have your CPU sitting there at 90C without the HSF fan. Heck, I might do that anyway, since I have one of those dual 9 inch jobs doing that very same thing as I type this.

Here and there I've seen some gizmos that hook to your constant 5 volts to run case fans for like 5 minutes after you shut the computer down (albeit at 5 volts). I've never seen one that would do that for the HSF, though. That might be an idea ;^)
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Lloyd M.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elwood wrote:
It seems like this issues comes up a lot for anyone involved in distributed computing. IIRC, Pentium D's are supposed to run at 64C or below for safe operation. Mine always hangs around in the upper 60's no matter how I slice it.

My Pentium M in my laptop will run well into the 70's C if I just let BOINC do its thing. It drags the other components with it, with the hard drive wandering into the mid to upper 50's and other parts of the chipset hitting temps as much as 10C above the CPU. On a couple of occassions I've come back to find it all the way into the upper 80's or higher, heating the keypad and case to the point that I could barely touch it to shut the thing down. I've also tried throttling in v5.8 of BOINC, but that has just caused such awesome spikes or dips in temp that the CPU could not be happy.

Just today I've decided to try UNDERclocking or under-volting the CPU, which seems like blasphemy in a world of ever-increasing performance. It turns out that running a 1395MHz CPU at 598MHz (using Notebook Hardware Control Personal Edition sotware rather than hardware hacks) will keep my Pentium M 20 degrees cooler, and the surrounding area 30C cooler. So now the question is, do I let lappy BOINC 24x7 at under 600MHz, or do I restrict BOINCing to times when I'm in front of lappy, keeping an eye on things? (And yes, I clean and check for dust at the intake duct and fan and heatsink area.)


Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I actually sped up my AMD K100 by underclocking it (this was before I knew anything about cooling). As it turns out the L1 cache was flaky at 100 mHz, so I had to turn it off to keep the computer from constantly crashing. When I underclocked it to 90 mHz, I could turn the L1 cache back on.

Anyway, if it were me, I would leave it going 24 X 7, and just underclock it when I wasn't there.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well 1GHz (okay, 997MHz) with BOINC going full-out seems like the best compromise. CPU temps of 60-63, everthing else nice and steady. Working from a meidian of about 15:00 per PrimeGrid WU at 1.4Ghz, I have about 19:50 for 1GHz, 25:08 at 800Mhz and 32:27 at 600MHz. In practical terms, that is the difference between only running BOINC for four or five hours a day due to overheating vs. running 24 hours on most days. Pretty good trade off so far.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elwood wrote:
Well 1GHz (okay, 997MHz) with BOINC going full-out seems like the best compromise. CPU temps of 60-63, everthing else nice and steady. Working from a meidian of about 15:00 per PrimeGrid WU at 1.4Ghz, I have about 19:50 for 1GHz, 25:08 at 800Mhz and 32:27 at 600MHz. In practical terms, that is the difference between only running BOINC for four or five hours a day due to overheating vs. running 24 hours on most days. Pretty good trade off so far.


Sounds like you have come up with a good solution.

On my AMD rig, I have a 2.7+ gHz "banzai" OC (stock is 2.2) that I can run as long as I can pull some cool air into the room. We've had several days lately where I could do that. The automatic shutdown is 75C. I try to keep it less than 60C, though I've seen 63C when the room was 32C or over.

A more sane 2.4+ gHz OC runs about 8C cooler, mostly because it doesn't require raising any voltages. I have been running that during the day when it's going to be too hot outside to properly cool the room with air pulled in by a window fan.

The thing is, I seem to always manage to get myself overburdened with WU's to the point that I feel I need that extra 300 mHz so I can clear out the cache in time.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of overclocking, I think my PSU is indeed the problem on that XP 3k+. I watched voltages with nTune and was surprised to find it's under-volting the CPU at 1.60 instead of the 1.650 spec'd in BIOS. If it's already under volting then trying to overclock it is just going to make it worse.
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Lloyd M.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerWA wrote:
Speaking of overclocking, I think my PSU is indeed the problem on that XP 3k+. I watched voltages with nTune and was surprised to find it's under-volting the CPU at 1.60 instead of the 1.650 spec'd in BIOS. If it's already under volting then trying to overclock it is just going to make it worse.


You ain't whistling dixie there. All the more reason to respect that poor CPU, trying to work properly under those conditions Laughing

I suppose if you're going to eventually swap out the mobo to upgrade it the computer, that it might make sense to put in a good PSU in the meanwhile. I got a 500 or so watt Ultra PSU from Microcenter, complete with the swappable cables (so you can plug in only what you need) for practically nothing after rebate. It seems like they usually have a ridiculously low price on a PSU, as a loss leader.
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