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Dead system
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Eaving
Prince
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Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 694
Location: Portland, Or.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:06 am    Post subject: Dead system Reply with quote

My main shrubber is suddenly refusing to turn on and I'm looking for advice on what you guys think may be wrong.

With the system plugged in and turned on I get an indicator light on on the motherboard. So I know I have at least some power passing through the power supply and at least some minimal life on the side of the motherboard. But hitting the power button does nothing at all. By my way of thinking that means I have a dead
1) Power switch(seems unlikely but hope springs eternal)
2) Power supply
3) Motherboard

I figure any other part I would get at least some functionality before failure. Regardless Ive tried pulling a few parts and trying to power up afterwards, to no effect. The obvious simple solution would be to try another power supply but I recently cleared out most of my 'obsolete/unneeded' parts. And this would be an illustration as to why we shouldn't throw out spare parts Smile.
Anyway I would appreciate any advice on tests to try and determine which part is likely dead. I can probably afford to replace the ps or the motherboard in a week or two, but would love to get shrubbing again before that.
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JerWA
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check your PS to MB connections, and case to MB connections. Even if the MB is fried you should get a response to power, audible codes if nothing else.
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Sir Papa Smurph
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Prince


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first Idea is a Power supply

My second Idea is a Power supply

My third Idea is that it is unplugged Wink
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Pooh Bear 27
Prince
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch the fan on the PS when you turn it on. Does it even spin at all? If not, then I would suspect PS. If it does (even slightly), then there are a few things that could be bad, and most usually are not good. Regulators, CPU, etc could all be showing a short and stopping the PS before frying more.
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Eaving
Prince
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Location: Portland, Or.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No movement on the fan, though I will double check that. As for the unplugged, I did check that. I've been doing this long enough to always check for stupid user error first, especially when that user is me Smile
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mohrorless
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always make sure to check for the PEBKAC issue first.....
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ohiomike
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mohrorless wrote:
I always make sure to check for the PEBKAC issue first.....

Is that the voice of experience I hear?

PS- Sounds like the PS is DOA.
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mohrorless
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohiomike wrote:
mohrorless wrote:
I always make sure to check for the PEBKAC issue first.....

Is that the voice of experience I hear?


How else would I know what to check? Wink
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Prince
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this case I think the real pebkac problem is the fact that I don't think I held onto that shipping invoice as Im pretty sure the PS is under warrenty and I wont be able to take advantage of that fact.
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mohrorless
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch!
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Lloyd M.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead system Reply with quote

Eaving wrote:
My main shrubber is suddenly refusing to turn on and I'm looking for advice on what you guys think may be wrong.


Whoa! I would say I might finally be able to catch up, but that wouldn't be even slightly funny. Embarassed

Besides, I can't get BOINC to start up on my main shrubber.

As far as I'm concerned, the big question is, to the drives try to spin up? If not, try disconnecting everything but one hard drive, and see if it spins up.

If it does, then try hooking up the absolute, bare minimum to make it act like a system (keyboard, video, and one stick of RAM only). Then see if it will try to POST.

Heck, you might even pull all the RAM out of it, to see if it will bitch at you about it when you try to power it up.

This is one place where the uGuru display on ABIT mobos comes in handy, because the onboard uGuru processor will give you diagnostics before the actual CPU even tries to POST.

Anyway, any ambiguous answers call for either a PSU tester or a cheap PSU to swap out.

I had similar symptoms with a known-good PSU and a known-good CPU in a believed-to-be good mobo. Unfortunately, I decided that the problem was probably a bent CPU pin (I haven't had the time nor the heart to have another look at it).

Naturally, that can't be your problem. I'm hoping the CPU isn't cooked. It's far more likely that the PSU is cooked. It might even be something as simple as the PSU power good signal never coming up.
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Prince
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive got a little red indicator light on the motherboard that is enough to know its getting some level of power, but its not making any attempt to fire up at all so uGuru does me no good at all(Im running an Abit Ab9-Pro on that system). I did the traditional steps of disconnect things and try again, so its currently completely driveless. Had I been able to get it to boot into Bios I would have happily then seen about plugging things back in to determine exactly where the problem is. Im pretty certain its the PS thats the issue, which annoys me since its a good quality part(Seasonic S12, was almost dead silent when it still worked, now it truly is dead silent Razz)
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Lloyd M.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eaving wrote:
Ive got a little red indicator light on the motherboard that is enough to know its getting some level of power, but its not making any attempt to fire up at all so uGuru does me no good at all(Im running an Abit Ab9-Pro on that system). I did the traditional steps of disconnect things and try again, so its currently completely driveless. Had I been able to get it to boot into Bios I would have happily then seen about plugging things back in to determine exactly where the problem is. Im pretty certain its the PS thats the issue, which annoys me since its a good quality part(Seasonic S12, was almost dead silent when it still worked, now it truly is dead silent Razz)


My uGuru has a two-digit POST display right on the mobo, and it has codes that come up (power supply ready, RAM ready, etc.) before the actual CPU POST even starts. It also shows regular CPU POST codes even before you get video, so you don't have to contend with those blasted beep codes.

It's sounding like it actually could be the CPU, but far more likely the PSU, as they are quite a bit more failure-prone. I would suggest sucking it up and getting another PSU. Last I knew, MicroCenter had some pretty good deals. I'm spoiled rotten because there's a MicroCenter retail store close to here.

Or maybe you have a friend that would loan you one If you were around here, I would cheerfully lend you my spare, brand new Ultra PSU (I bought two really cheap on a deal from TigerDirect, and I'm only using one - on my linux box). It would be kind of light to actually run the system, but would have enough suds to at least POST the mobo if it were still so inclined.
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Prince
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be buying a new PS probably Sat/Sunday at some point. Were headed out on vacation for the next five days and I just can't bring myself to splash out on the power supply until after we get home. Never know when there might be something all together more magical that we'd rather buy while in British Columbia where I can just as easily buy the power supply today or a week from now. I do wish I had a friend locally I could bump parts from because I would love to be certain its the PS before wasting the time buying one, but such is life sometimes.
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Prince
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the new power supply and still no dice. If we want to look on a bright side of the situation though it almost certainly is a motherboard issue in that case and that is under warrenty.
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Al Dente
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar problem a couple of weeks ago on one of my Q6600s, with the m/b LED showing some sort of power, but all attempts to get it to fire up failed. So I got a new PSU then found it was the power switch connection.
I'm using an ASUS m/b which come with a front-panel header. You plug your panel connections into this, then the whole lot goes into the m/b in one easy move. The beast worked fine as soon as I'd thrown that away, and I must admit it did hit the bin at a satisfyingly high rate of knots. #Mad
So I've now got the first bit of the next shrubber a few weeks early. Rolling Eyes
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ohiomike
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a flier, you might try clearing the CMOS (there is a jumper on the motherboard to do this). There is an outside chance that the configuration got screwed up so the system can't post. (Trying to boot wrong FSB, ram speeds, etc).
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Lnkwizard2
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One way to test a the new ATX power supplies is to pull all power connectors to the Mobo and assorted drives and stuff and hook up a spare cooling fan or a sacraficial HD to one fo the molex connectors. If you use a fan, connect it to the 12v line. If you want to get real fancy you can hook up a bulb from a 3-cell flashlight to the 5v line. Then making sure the PS is plugged in, connect the green wire on the mobo connector to a ground wire and the fan should spin up and the light will turn on if the PS is working right. Since I support shrubbers for a living, I made a little test jig for just that purpose. Saves many headaches.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to get a nice powerful flash light and look at all the capacitors. Look for bulging or oily caps. There has been a big problem with these for a couple years.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually have the system disconnected and on a brightly lit table at this point. I start with the quick and simple and work my way out. I'm now fully out at the parts totally separated post mortem level. And its not a bad caps situation. I did have a couple of those boards a few years back, but this board shows no signs of any wear and tear. Its only a hair over six months old, though obviously its been running 24/7 for the bulk of that time. I wish I had a few similar age systems so I could swap a few other parts and check, but at this point I'm going to contact Abit about swapping the board out.
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