KWSN Orbiting Fortress Forum Index KWSN Orbiting Fortress
KWSN Distributed Computing Teams forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The future is almost here...

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KWSN Orbiting Fortress Forum Index -> Science News and Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Al Dente
Prince
Prince


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 3228
Location: Leodis, the jewel at the end of the yellow brick road (or M1)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject: The future is almost here... Reply with quote

Can I have one, pretty please!
_________________
Creationists believe they never evolved; I agree with them.

. . My Milestones . . My Full BOINC list
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JerWA
Prince
Prince


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'd only do 80 WUs at a time, how sissy is that. If you're going to wish, wish big and go for a BlueGene/L rack... or 10.
#ni-1
_________________

Stats: [BOINC Synergy] - [Free-DC] - [MundayWeb] - [Netsoft] - [All Project Stats]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
mohrorless
Mail Order Goat Bride
Prince


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 11206
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sound of someone giving a low pitched single tone whistle WOW. That would be neat to get one of those. I wonder what they are going to overcharge?
_________________
Fetch me the Holy Hand Grenade!

#Usa


Keeper of the Unending keg of PGGBs
Taunter in Training
Campaign Manager for Sir Shrubbery



Plus

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JerWA
Prince
Prince


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, getting one of those would be mostly useless, as it's not built upon the architecture we're currently using (i.e. no Windowz for that lol). What will be keen, however, is when they integrate that into a standard x86 architecture so that we can run 4 80-core chips at a time haha. How much memory would you need to run 320 instances of BOINC at once? Shocked
_________________

Stats: [BOINC Synergy] - [Free-DC] - [MundayWeb] - [Netsoft] - [All Project Stats]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Eaving
Prince
Prince


Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 694
Location: Portland, Or.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerWA wrote:
It'd only do 80 WUs at a time,


This statement for some reason set me into a giggling fit. Probably means Im over due for a nap frankly.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Al Dente
Prince
Prince


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 3228
Location: Leodis, the jewel at the end of the yellow brick road (or M1)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerWA wrote:
It'd only do 80 WUs at a time, how sissy is that. If you're going to wish, wish big and go for a BlueGene/L rack... or 10.
#ni-1

But how about sticking 1024 of them into a single BlueGene rack - that could probably do some serious damage to the world stock of BOINC WU's. Laughing
_________________
Creationists believe they never evolved; I agree with them.

. . My Milestones . . My Full BOINC list
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mohrorless
Mail Order Goat Bride
Prince


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 11206
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Dente wrote:
JerWA wrote:
It'd only do 80 WUs at a time, how sissy is that. If you're going to wish, wish big and go for a BlueGene/L rack... or 10.
#ni-1

But how about sticking 1024 of them into a single BlueGene rack - that could probably do some serious damage to the world stock of BOINC WU's. Laughing


It would put the world on notice to watch out for us. We would take # 1 within 6 months to a year AND KEEP IT.
_________________
Fetch me the Holy Hand Grenade!

#Usa


Keeper of the Unending keg of PGGBs
Taunter in Training
Campaign Manager for Sir Shrubbery



Plus

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JerWA
Prince
Prince


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One rack? BlueGene/L is designed to go all the way up to 65,000 processors. A fully loaded BlueGene/L would crunch around 60 million BOINC credits a day, assuming you could find enough projects to feed it. The problem is it'd probably cost you $100,000/day in electricity and climate control alone to run it, not to mention how many millions (probably hundreds) it'd cost to buy it in the first place hehe.

The problem with this evil plan is that none of the other architecture could handle it. The same goes for that 80 core processor now, and why I say it's not all that useful except as a learning tool. There is no backplane on the planet that will handle that processor at anywhere near 100% power because it can't get data into and out of it fast enough to keep the processors busy. It's why that 80-core chip has more functionality than our normal CPUs, so that they can feed it a relatively small amount of data (in the form of a complex problem) and it can then run several iterations of that problem at once. They avoid output congestion the same way, because all that you're getting back is the solution.

Here's what I mean... say you feed it an 800MB math problem. It's going to turn that 800MB math problem into 80 related math problems (in effect turning the 800MB into 64,000 MB) and crunch them all at the same time. As each finishes, it's going to correlate it's results to compare them for validity, again adding more CPU cycles without requiring more input or any output at this point. When they're finally all done it's going to spit out a 5 MB set of results, along with how all results were reached, cross references, averages, means, etc. Pretty handily avoiding any bottlenecks.

If that CPU were in, say... my PC right now, we'd have a serious problem. First off, the "pipes" into the CPU would only be able to get enough data in to keep maybe 5 busy at once. At the same time, the pipes leading from the CPU to the rest of the system could only handle 5 things at once as well. Because we're breaking things down into very simple equations, we'd never even touch the abilities of this 80 core CPU because it's designed to work with complex instructions for the reason I mention above. As such, it'd just be a really expensive useless option for us hehe.

This is one of the reasons that BlueGene/L, Cray III, etc supercomputers use a special architecture whereby everything is on one board. The memory, controllers, CPU(s), etc are all contained on one board. When you want more processors you add another board (and subsequently more memory (or at least memory potential), controllers, and very importantly pipes into/out of the core). Because the CPUs and memory are unaware of the backplane, they need no special instructions to use it. The on-board controllers take care of that part, and since they are proprietary the backplane can be of any design. In the case of BlueGene/L, I'm sure the backplane is tremendously huge, because it's designed to scale all the way to 65,000 processors.

Using an 80-core chip in an existing BlueGene/L would introduce the same problems you'd have in your desktop! The backplane isn't designed to handle so much throughput, and you'd bottleneck very rapidly. It won't be long I imagine before Intel gets with someone to make a BlueGene/L like supercomputer based on their cores, however. The name of the game is power efficiency, and they've definitely got a winner on that front.
_________________

Stats: [BOINC Synergy] - [Free-DC] - [MundayWeb] - [Netsoft] - [All Project Stats]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Fart in your gen direxion
I am the goatse.cx guy
Prince


Joined: 24 May 2002
Posts: 2022
Location: Regrettably for you, I'm Upwind in Upstate N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerWA wrote:
The problem is it'd probably cost you $100,000/day in electricity and climate control alone to run it, not to mention how many millions (probably hundreds) it'd cost to buy it in the first place hehe..


Approximately 15,000 watts per processor ?

Ummmm, no Confused .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JerWA
Prince
Prince


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, according to IBM each BlueGene/L Rack...
IBM wrote:
...integrate(s) 1,024 dual-processor compute nodes into a rack 0.9 m wide, 0.9 m deep, and 1.9 m high that consumes 27.5 kW of total power.

The theoretical maximum nodes is 65,536 (to put a specific number to the 65,000 I mentioned in my post). That brings us to 64 racks at 27.5 kW each, or 1760 kW. Average consumer electricity prices in 2005, per this report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics ranged from 0.07/hr to 0.16/hr. Assuming that we're running the BG/L into the ground at 100% (it IS BOINC we're talking about), that's 1,760 kW/h.
At $0.07 kW/h that's $123.20 an hour, or $2,956.80 a day.
At $0.16 kW/h that's $281.60 an hour, or $6,758.40 a day.

Both figures are assuming no loss (impossible), and not factoring in HVAC costs yet. The only information I could find about cooling requirements was an old press release that mentions 300 tons. It appears that huge cooling units meant for this load such as this one consume ~1,000 kW @ 300 tons (significantly higher for more cooling). The devices in that range (300 ton) swing from 900 to 1200 kW draw, and these are all the latest "energy friendly" units, so we'll go with one of them for the point of comparison.

The additional 1,000 kW brings us to 2,760 kW/h (again, we're talking about 100% load, so there is no down time for the AC system), which brings our totals to:
At $0.07 kW/h that's $193.20 an hr, or $4,636.80 a day.
At $0.16 kW/h that's $441.60 an hr, or $10,598.40 a day.

So I was off by a factor of 10... but you'd still be looking at $4,600-$10,000 for just the BG/L and the AC to keep it at ambient temperature. In the summer, I imagine the electricity consumption of the AC unit would double (which is why underground bunkers are keen).

This is, of course, ignoring the heat generated by loss in cables, power converters, etc, any lighting you'd use, the monitoring system(s) for the BG/L, the building it's in, etc. So $100k/day it isn't, but my check book couldn't handle $10k/day any better. The Internet connection you'd need to keep it busy would probably cost more than the electricity. Wink
#ni-1
_________________

Stats: [BOINC Synergy] - [Free-DC] - [MundayWeb] - [Netsoft] - [All Project Stats]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
KWSN - Sir Brian C.......
Stop calling me 'she'
Prince


Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 2032
Location: Judea, AD33, at a stoning with me mum.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerWA wrote:
It'd only do 80 WUs at a time


how much RAM would you need for Rosetta/WCG

about 40 gig..... Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
_________________
Oh, it's blessed are the meek!, Well I'm glad they'll get something as they have a hell of a time!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Fart in your gen direxion
I am the goatse.cx guy
Prince


Joined: 24 May 2002
Posts: 2022
Location: Regrettably for you, I'm Upwind in Upstate N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerWA wrote:
So I was off by a factor of 10... :


I did the calculations in my head in about 10 seconds, you loony Razz .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KWSN Orbiting Fortress Forum Index -> Science News and Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Optimized Seti@Home App | BOINC Stats