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Predictor @ Home - Help fix this project...
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Pooh Bear 27
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Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:55 pm    Post subject: Predictor @ Home - Help fix this project... Reply with quote

I have been denied access to Predictor @ Home after I have written a few messages of TRUTH on the board. They have been censoring my messages and now have removed my access. I am looking for maybe a fellow KWSN member who is a lawyer and wants to help another fellow member, or find funding to go after the project, the school and the developers for US censorship laws, and the damage done to me by removing my access.

I also request that no one send bad mail to Predictor about this, because it will just cause issues. I have warned them that I plan on seeking a lawyer.

I used no profanity on their boards, and everything I stated is truth and is proven by their own actions.

If it was detrimental to their project, they were the ones who brought it upon themselves.

Please let me know if you are willing to help.

I am not the only one they have done bad to. Many of us remember the person who made the WIKI? Predictor was a major factor in him leaving the BOINC community.


Last edited by Pooh Bear 27 on Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pooh Bear 27
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been suggested I give some of the information that I put on the Predictor board that was censored. I originally thought this might be a bad idea, because it may cause more issues, but I realize that when people read this it may not sound like enough information to want to help me.

The gist of what I stated I stated was that the project was not updating their home page with the current information, the developers were not good at answering questions in a timely manner, that the database with the old dead results were not getting cleaned up, and the old CHARMm results were not getting credited for many months.

I never used a profane word, nor did I say anything that others who were not censored had said, also.

Since I can not get into my account to get what was exactly said (because I could read my posts up until they removed my access, even though they were removed from everyone else's view), but I know that what I stated was the truth.

I did this in a seperate message so people can read the plea first, then the details later.
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jonnyv
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm sympathetic to your frustrations, you really don't have a case on free speech grounds (however, I'm not a lawyer). Your right to free speech only applies to government censorship. Scripps, being a private entity, can censor whatever they like for whatever reason they like. Your best bet is probably just to blog about it and spread the word.
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Pooh Bear 27
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Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After talking to a few people I understand I might not have a legal foot to step on.

I have decided to go on a letter writing campaign instead. I am going to write to the school, the companies and entities that give money to Predictor, and explain what has happened to me. I believe that the people that donate to that project, and the school needs to know what the developers are not doing, and that is doing their job. Why should they be paid not to do their job. Maybe this will make enough of an impact on the project.

Now if people want to write NICE letters to the school, or some/all of the contributors you know of, we could make a nice writing campaign as a group and I am sure they will listen to more of us, than just a single upset volunteer.

I plan on researching what places contribute to this project, since it should be public information. I will try and post as much of this information here, after I find out, so others can write letters, also. If someone has more time than I (I am working long hours the next 6 weeks), and wants to help me find out the contributors, I would appriciate this.
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Son Goku
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Predictor does seem to have gone down hill since the early days when they were viewed as one of the better projects. Things went from a time where the project's people were well, as responsive as Rosseta's people are now, to I'm not even sure what their issue is.

I'll briefly mention one little bit, but I can't prove a thing (it's more a suspiscion then anything). I would definitely not suggest taking this anywhere as supposition (on my part here) is not proof of anything. I had read that

Quote:
A well respected member of the BOINC community had gotten banned from a project after mentioning fortran errors, and some other issues


This was shortly after Paul D. Buck had said his fare wells, and made mention to some things that are broken and try as he may, there is no way it will get fixed. He posted his fare well on various different projects. Predictor is about the only project in which I had continually seen fortran errors, and of course many of us (including myself in time past) had issued bug reports. At that time (over a year ago) they seemed to have been taken as bug reports, and there seemed some interest in looking into it. Now, I don't know.

I suspect, but don't have enough of an inside scoop to know for sure, that Paul D. Buck is the one who got banned. And if that is the case, after all the time, energy, and effort he had put in with his Wiki, talking to all the developers, and having helped more then a few people in the forums for the various projects...

I've pretty much given up crunching predictor, though I was never one to make some grand exit, or make an issue out of the fact that some things going on over there (along with my suspiscion that Paul Buck was the one who got hit up in this, prior to his leaving BOINC altogether) has really cost a certain degree of credibility with the project, in my own eyes. People will do, and crunch whatever they want (as all should).

On a legal basis, given it's a private organization, and their own message boards, there really isn't a first amendment claim that can be made. Legally, they are fit to moderate their boards, as they see fit; be it right or wrong. They're not really operating outside the scope of what the law allows them on this. But, and that said, it doesn't mean I personally approve of some things that have taken place, but in the end my own approval or disapproval really would mean nothing to the people in question anyhow...
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Fart in your gen direxion
I am the goatse.cx guy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Predictor @ Home and the law... Reply with quote

Pooh Bear 27 wrote:
I have warned them that I plan on seeking a lawyer.


Shocked



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Pooh Bear 27
Prince
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:05 pm    Post subject: Contact list Reply with quote

I have compiled a contact list from several of the organizations that work with Predictor. These are the people I am going to write a letter to, explaining Predictor's ways, so they understand that Predictor is not treating it's members very fair, and that they have been very lapse in updating information and allowing the project to effectively be dead.

If you wish to write to these, I encourage it. Please be courteous when writing, do not use profane or demeaning language. Tell the truth, and maybe if enough of us compalin, and the right people see it, it will change the way Predictor works it's project, or shut it down.

When I get my final draft together, I will post it.

This list includes the website addresses, then e-mail(s) for important people from those websites.

http://www.scripps.edu/e_index.html
weston@scripps.edu

http://www.nsf.gov/
dnatalic@nsf.gov
abement@nsf.gov
kolsen@nsf.gov
twindham@nsf.gov
acarlson@nsf.gov
krison@nsf.gov
jnesbit@nsf.gov
csuplee@nsf.gov

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8208726&dopt=Abstract
info@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
gb-admin@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
nihinfo@od.nih.gov

http://www.bioinformatics.buffalo.edu/
coeb-info@ccr.buffalo.edu

http://faculty.utep.edu/Default.aspx?alias=faculty.utep.edu/mtaufer
taufer@acm.org

http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/Welcome.do
info@rcsb.org

http://www.ebi.ac.uk/msd/
industrysupport@ebi.ac.uk

http://scop.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/scop/
scop@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk

http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/bsm/cath/
cathteam@biochem.ucl.ac.uk

http://bioinfo.pl/meta/
meta@bioinfo.pl

http://genesilico.pl/meta/
iamb@genesilico.pl
jkogut@genesilico.pl

http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/vmd/
kschulte@ks.uiuc.edu
kale@cs.uiuc.edu
zan@ks.uiuc.edu
aksiment@uiuc.edu
emad@ks.uiuc.edu
brandon@ks.uiuc.edu
joyce@ks.uiuc.edu
miller@ks.uiuc.edu

http://www.umass.edu/microbio/rasmol/
emartz@microbio.umass.edu

http://www.expasy.org/spdbv/
ng45767@ggr.co.uk
Torsten.Schwede@isb-sib.ch

http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/
chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu.

http://www.scripps.edu/brooks/
brooks@scripps.edu
kristyn@scripps.edu

http://predictioncenter.gc.ucdavis.edu/
query@predictioncenter.org
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LanDroid
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be better for your mental health to do what I do:

crunch crunch crunch boinc crunch boinc boinc boinc boinc crunch crunch

And post only in The Gorge of Eternal Peril.
#ni-2
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Cohiba
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pooh Bear 27

well I think many fellow Knights sympothise with your plight. But most are not willing to attack the mighty oak with a herring. We instead seek shrubs from other places. If predictor has gone anal renetive which i started seeing after the massive influx of whiney cry babies from seti, then i'd say good riddence to predictor and focus your energies on something like F@H that does nearly what predictor did. If you wish to stay boinc only go to seti, LHC, or any of the other projects that have avoided the power mad cry babies. Dealing with a university is about like dealing with the government they are ruled by Money, so unless you can contribute grants, buildings etc.. in large quantities you will be writing to a brick wall who will care less how many people send them emails. As last time i looked we only had 100 active crunchers on predictor, even if all 100 active crunchers took the time to email it still would not be effective.

Sit down breathe slow and deeply, Inhale through the nose, exhale through the mouth {breath mints prefered} and count to 1,000,000 if your not relaxed or hyperventilated by then switch to another worth while project.
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Killerrabbit
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also Rosetta does basically the same thing and I do not think they have been taken over by power mad cry babies. The thing about Predictor it was one of the first projects after SETI so a lot of those people went to Predictor when SETI ran out of work in the old days of BOINC (which was often).

Ni
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killerrabbit wrote:
Also Rosetta does basically the same thing and I do not think they have been taken over by power mad cry babies.


They just posted a picture of the Rosetta project leader over at their site Sad .

You can't tell from the piccie, but he's also power mad Confused .



To Pooh Bear 27,


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Honorable I. M. Loony
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Predictor @ Home - Help fix this project... Reply with quote

Pooh Bear 27 wrote:
I have been denied access to Predictor @ Home after I have written a few messages of TRUTH on the board. They have been censoring my messages and now have removed my access. I am looking for maybe a fellow KWSN member who is a lawyer and wants to help another fellow member, or find funding to go after the project, the school and the developers for US censorship laws, and the damage done to me by removing my access to the BOINC community.


I'm the only lawyer in the KWSN ranks and you can bet your ass I'm certified Very Happy .

I'm very selective in who I choose for a client. My criteria is basically that they be of similar mind as me, that is, they have to be a 100 % certified loony nutjob Confused .

The good news is that I've determined from your posts here that you're all that, and more Cool . Ignore Sir Fart and do NOT increase your medication doses as you might regain a semblance of sanity and there goes a nice big fat fee for me right out the window Mad .

As far as "damages" to you, we're gonna have to subpoena your mother as it's fairly obvious she must have dropped you on your head a lot when you were a youngster. Sweet Jumpin' Jebus, she must've played full-court basketball with your little noggin. We'll sue her bloomers off ! I'm smelling a big payoff here Cool Smile .
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Killerrabbit
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your Honor please ignore all remarks that I have maimed another Knight or Kow.

Ni
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Son Goku
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killerrabbit wrote:
Also Rosetta does basically the same thing and I do not think they have been taken over by power mad cry babies. The thing about Predictor it was one of the first projects after SETI so a lot of those people went to Predictor when SETI ran out of work in the old days of BOINC (which was often).

Ni


Rosseta is very good on updating their page, providing news, and giving the same level of support to their project, which predictor used to be known for back in the "olden days" Very Happy Taking the shrubs to Rosseta will accomplish much the same result, and help a project that does seem much more committed to the project at large.
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Pooh Bear 27
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: My e-mail Reply with quote

I have finally composed my e-mail that will be sent out early next week (please give me some constructive help on any changes you see fit):

To whom this may concern:

I am writing you, because you or your organization has some affiliation with the Predictor@Home (http://predictor.scripps.edu/) project. Since you have this affiliation, I wish to tell you about the way they are treating their volunteers.

I got on board early. The prospect of the project was something I had a passion for. I was glad I was helping. After a while I noticed that the project developers were not being very responsive or cooperative with respects to the project. It became apparent that the developers were not going in a good direction. Some examples of this are the main web page is stale. It shows very old targets. Another thing is the database is a mess. Old results that do not clean up, or validate. I started asking why this was happening, and there was no response to my or other peoples queries. After I while, I decided not to work on the project, until they cleaned up their act a little.

I started letting people know of the issues of the project. All of a sudden my messages became censored. This upset me. It is a PUBLIC project, this is the US, and censorship is frowned upon. About a month ago my access was removed, and a lot of my messages removed. I wish to state that the messages were clean, and truthful. Everything I stated was already known by many of the volunteers. This has prompted me to write to the people who have a stake in this project. To let you know that the project developers are throwing away their volunteers, without just cause.

If you are not the person who should be receiving this, please pass it on to the person, or people who are. I believe that this project can be a great benefit, but it must be run correctly, or just taken away.

I hope you understand my frustration in the way this project has treated its volunteers, and myself. I was helping many users on the site with their issues. If you look up the messages of mine on the site (http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_user_posts.php?userid=12675), you will see I helped people, and asked questions of the project. The messages they removed you can not see from this link. They are noted in this link, but show no information.

I would like my access back. I have written the project, but they have ignored my e-mail.

Sincerely,

me
me at me dot em dot me
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Pooh Bear 27
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Letter sent Reply with quote

After the wife proof read and fixed some grammatical errors on my letter, it was sent out, yesterday.

I received several auto-replies back for out of office, one person no longer working for a place, and one seems to be a maillist address. I expected some of that, I also expected maybe a bounce or two, but none did that.

I have received my first reply, and the person was once was heavily into helping P@H, but now moved onto a new project that she could not tell me about yet, but promised to send me a personal invite when it goes to a point that I can join. She also seems miffed at P@H, and is sending them a strong letter about their actions. I hope she has some pull.
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LanDroid
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I'm actually crunching a Predictor shrub! Is this a fluke, or are they producing again? Here's some news from the web site:
Quote:
03/19/07
After reviewing the results of the current testing it looks like we need homogeneous redundancy turned on. This presents some scheduling challenges that we will need to overcome.

03/16/07
At some point we are going to start to require that you use boinc client 5.4 or newer. Please upgrade your clients to a recent version if you are older than 5.4. Homogeneous Redundancy has been turned on and a new set of workunits is being created.

http://predictor.scripps.edu/
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Pooh Bear 27
Prince
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I refuse to ever do work for them again. I finally got my account back, and I cleared out my dead computers, and will never return. I refuse to even go to the website, anymore.
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LanDroid
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, it's just Boinc'ing, no reason to get that excited. This unit appears to be stuck at 98.75%, oh well, we'll see...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LanDroid they are producing work again that seems to have no checkpoints and need a lot of RAM.

Ni

Test WU's there so far.
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