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Cruch3r Left SETI
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A/C
Baron
Baron


Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Mostly in reality, sometimes in virtual reality

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: my tuppence Reply with quote

KWSN - Sir Brian C....... wrote:

What it boils down to, is why do we do this? for me its the science, if the science of the project appeals to me then I'll sign up and pay for some electricity to support the science. hence no maths projects for me but astronomy / physics or humanitarian? I'm in.......


That's what I'm in it for too -- the science of the SETI project appeals to me. People make a decision to volunteer their computers to help SETI search for signals. That's it, that's bassically what the projects' about. The rest is extra spice that isn't part of end goal.

#ni-1
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ToeBee
KWSN Castellan
KWSN Castellan


Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 601
Location: Manhattan, KS

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after reading even more, it seems there was some miscommunication, some short fuses and a few flame wars. Now everyone is on the defensive and there are hurt feelings all around. Certainly a shame but I'm still not seeing any reason to strike. Am I blind or sane? Certainly it can't be sanity! I was sure I had gotten rid of that years ago! Wink

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Elwood
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Joined: 21 Feb 2006
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Location: West Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There doesn't seem to be any consensus as to what the strike is about or intended to accomplish. Apology to cruch3r? From SETI or Tony? Credit issues? Buggy app? Moderation on the forums?

Even Eric had this to say:

Quote:
But really, I do notice the strike. That doesn't mean I have the time or resources to do anything about it. I have work to do. (It's 10pm on a Sunday night and I'm at work...) I'm not even really sure what Crunch3r's issues are besides hurt feelings.

What good is a strike without demands? I can't say we'll meet any, but if there's not a list....


In the end, it doesn't matter to me, mostly because the majority of my SETI cruching is done by office machines and the boss only endorses SETI among the BOINC apps and I'm attached to the company team. Though I've been known to borg a machine for other projects occassionally, I'm really trying to be good and obey the boss's wishes right now. At home, I'm mostly into Einstein and CPDN (for KWSN) with 10% shares or so to SETI.
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Baron
Baron


Joined: 22 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MacG wrote:


(only to KWSN members) no strike here. Keep on crunchin' seti. In fact, everyone increase your resource share! If they want to fall in the standings, let 'em! Cool



Yes, indeed, good idea. Idea I've got two notebooks, a new 3Ghz one that I'm having some problems with and an older 2.2Ghz one that I just got a new fan for. Unless or untill I got to take one of them with me somewhere, I'll just keep both of them going 24/7.
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Elwood
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crunch3r appears to be asking everyone to stop using his optimized apps:

Quote:

i'm asking all people who are using the app. to delete it, because i no longer have the source and i can't provide access to it and please don't mirror them due to violation of GPL.


However, despite cruch3r's claim to the contrary, it probably isn't a violation to continue using his app:

Quote:
6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the
Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the
original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to
these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further
restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein.
You are not responsible for enforcing compliance by third parties to
this License.


What's everyone think--delete out of respect for crunch3r's wishes or keep up with the best app currently available for the sake of science?
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Baron
Baron


Joined: 22 May 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elwood wrote:

What's everyone think--delete out of respect for crunch3r's wishes or keep up with the best app currently available for the sake of science?


Hmm... well, I don't use it personally. I'd say that because of the GPL, the decision to use it or not is up to the individual. I think they'd have to consider wether they're getting an unfair advantage or not if they keep using it though.
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Son Goku
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the nature of the open source liscense agreement, and the terms under which something is developed under a GPL; there's no legal side to this whatsoever...

It would be similar to SCO (lets say) making a Linux distro, but then after putting it out there, not wanting people to use Linux. One can't really pull it, "once it's out there". I'm actually surprised about this side of things, and mentioned my surprise on the BOINCstats forum...
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KWSN - Sir Brian C.......
Stop calling me 'she'
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Goku wrote:
I'm actually surprised about this side of things, and mentioned my surprise on the BOINCstats forum...




Yeah this course of action appears to me to be more out of spite than anything else

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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ToeBee
KWSN Castellan
KWSN Castellan


Joined: 30 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think the only legal issue is with redistributing it. The source code is not available which means that it cannot be redistributed legally under the GPL. I think running a copy that you already have should be perfectly legal although against the personal requests of crunch3r. The only illegal thing would be to put it up on a website for others to download since that would be redistribution.

Note: I have been known to be wrong on legal issues on occasion so don't sue me if I'm wrong! Maybe it is time to hire a team lawyer. Quick, everyone pony up a few hundred bucks! Shocked
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Son Goku
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Course, when he freely distributed it, he did not do so under any sort of contractual agreement that we couldn't turn around and give this to others (which was no doubt, not even a thought when it was being freely provided to all and sundry)... There was no EULA attached, or anything of the sort.

Assuming something like this were to be brought to court, I'm not sure how successfully it could even be argued.

judge: So you say there was an infringement. When you put this up on the website, was it freely available?

crunch3r: Yes

judge: Was there a liscense or EULA that you bundled with the software?

crunch3r: No

judge: And who's software was it?

crunch3r: Well based off the GPL under which I'm claiming, and by which SETI made the code available...

judge: So, you mean the SETI staff really created it?

crunch3r: Yeah, technically, though I got the Intel compiler and included optimizations which I got from many people, not just my own

judge: Oh I see. And you're saying that you didn't present people with an EULA prohibiting them from redistribution, of a work that was not entirely your own, but was heavily built off the work of others. And you are claiming the GPL?

crunch3r: yes sir...

I could see any attempt to bring it to court, to be thrown out. True, one can question the practice of shrink wrapping an EULA into a box that one can't read until after they open it (though opening it is considered agreement to terms one hasn't read yet), which has become standard fair; however I'm not so certain every judge or jury would hold one to requests which are made in an ex-post facto manner, and after the individual stopped producing the optimized version of someone elses software...

Oh, and true we're not talking Congress here, but the US Constitution is very explicit

Quote:
There shall be no ex post facto laws, or bills of attainder.


Though not a law or one with law making authority, I'm rather certain an argument could be made wrt arbitrarily stating provisions after the fact/in an ex post facto manner, when such provisions required no binding agreement, upon the initial download #ni-1
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