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Elwood
Knight
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 84
Location: West Virginia, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: Cruch3r Left SETI |
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 | Quote: | Hello,
It's not quite easy for me to write this, to honest to you all i'm writing this now with a tear running from my eye.
It's been a fantastic time here for quite a while, since things have changed for the bad.
That's why i'm taking the consequences and have to say god bye to you all.
Take care of yourself and keep on crunching.
Good by SETI.
____________
regards
Crunch3r |
Edit: His site is gone, too.
Word on the street is that he's taking his cruching power over to Einstein. Too bad he's not on our team.
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KWSN imcrazynow
Prince
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 2586
Location: Behind you !!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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I see that. His other site http://calbe.dw70.de/index.html just links to Einstein now. Where I might mention Akosf is the user of the day.
What happened over at SETI to cause this?
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Elwood
Knight
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 84
Location: West Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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There was a now deleted thread on the SETI board where Cruch3r was repeatedly accused of cheating for credits. Basically the multiplier wasn't right in 5.11 and it overclaimed. It was corrected in 5.12, but I guess he may have left 5.11 running in a couple of places, probably due to an oversight. I'm not sure cruch3r had the opportunity to answer the charges, which certainly should have been handled privately at first, given his standing in the SETI community.
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KWSN imcrazynow
Prince
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 2586
Location: Behind you !!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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I believe this may be the thread reposted. HERE
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IcaBoD
Knight
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Yes, quite a bit of drama over on the Berkeley board. I've been following most of it daily. After all of the punches are thrown and the dust settles, I have to wonder if the science will be the ultimate victim.
On the bright side, though, it may end up dispersing some of the 'Seti only' participants (like myself) to other projects.
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Son Goku
Duke
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Elwood wrote: | | There was a now deleted thread on the SETI board where Cruch3r was repeatedly accused of cheating for credits. Basically the multiplier wasn't right in 5.11 and it overclaimed. It was corrected in 5.12, but I guess he may have left 5.11 running in a couple of places, probably due to an oversight. I'm not sure cruch3r had the opportunity to answer the charges, which certainly should have been handled privately at first, given his standing in the SETI community. |
I didn't see these charges... But the "over-claiming" really is a bit understandable from one perspective.
The app, as I understand it was first developed when enhanced was still in the beta project. Truth be told, when I ran a few SETI beta WUs (as my credits do show some accumulated for SETI beta); the beta project did in fact give more credits per enhanced WU, then what I noticed being granted in the released project. I imagine that this over-claim was a resul of this, and that the claims were more tailored to what the beta project was providing.
Just as it takes time for a project to work out their software, someone making an optomized app, can end up needing time to make the necessary modifications to their software also, to bring it in par with actual changes that were implemented in the project moving it from beta to release. I in no one blame him or think his feet shoulda been held to the fire for this. Definitely not, if his credit claims were on par with what was being granted in the beta project, where his optimized app was first being developed.
There really do seem to be some people so up in arms about possible cheating (and I'm in no way saying that real, or actual cheating is OK mind you); that they're ready to go out on some witch hunt it would seem, towards those who are not necessarily guilty of it.
Perhaps, and about the claims on his 5.11 client, some people should have been willing to show the same level of understanding that they might feel the projects deserve, when developing an app themself and everything might not be "perfect" the first time around. Besides, from what I noticed, the credit claims and grants were higher on SETI beta when I crunched some WUs on it. And the enhanced units that I did crunch on the beta project, which did claim and give more credit was using the official science app in those instances... |
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Son Goku
Duke
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
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OK, this is completely ridiculous. Just took a look at one of the crunch3r threads on the SETI board. Now my stats on that project:
| Quote: | Total credit 27,694.40
Recent average credit 120.13 |
However, I go to give some positive rep to a well thought out post, that made a good argument, and I now get
| Quote: | | You need more average or total credit to rate a post. |
Oh, and BTW, I was a SETI cruncher since, well, let me pull up that stat too
| Quote: | | SETI@home member since 7 Apr 2000 |
though of course, for much of that it was under classic:
| Quote: | SETI@home classic workunits 7,544
SETI@home classic CPU time 38,276 hours |
But now, giving positive rep to a well thought out post is a big no-no? All because, well until last year I had an AXP 1900+ which was working hard to rack up most of that? All I can say, is that whoever decided to make that change in their forums needs their head examined or something... |
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Michelle
Moistened Bint
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10232
Location: At my desk
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I visit the project forums occasionally just to have a bit of a read and to see what's happening if a project is down etc, but I couldn't be bothered hanging around and posting because of all the crap that goes on at most of them. The arguing/flaming etc seems to be a heck of a lot worse than in any team forum.
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Elwood
Knight
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 84
Location: West Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure SETI boards have disable post-rating altogether due to abuse. Everybody gets the "RAC not high enough" message, even those while 5 figure RAC's.
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Son Goku
Duke
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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At least if they're not demanding that only people with 7+ figure credits are the only one's who can do this anymore.
After the number of years I had crunched for them, first on classic when they were pretty much the sole project I crunched for, and then on BOINC; that'd feel too much like a slap in the face. Sorta as if they were like "well you haven't donated enough to us, so..."  |
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A/C
Baron
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Mostly in reality, sometimes in virtual reality
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I just caught this info about people and even entire teams that are getting ready to strike over at the SETI@home Number Crunching board: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=31493#325343
I just think it's going to show who's really in this for the science, and who's not. If there's a strike than it's going to hurt the science. Well I for one am not going to strike, and I hope that The KWSN don't either.
What's the KWSN position on this idea about a strike? |
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klaatuborada
Yo ho! Post ho!
Joined: 08 Dec 2002
Posts: 2098
Location: by the dock by the bay...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Everything's a soap opera.
It's just silly that there's such a brou-ha-ha about this.
Next there's going to be arguments as to whose is bigger than whose.
Who cares...
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A Shrubbery
Prince
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 1861
Location: Pacific NW
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Mine's bigger than most but I won't go there. 
Crunch for whatever project you like. Ignore the whole "As the Stomach Turns" and everyone will be much happier.
As far as a "strike" it would have no effect on the adminstration or particularly the science. There is currently a pretty limited amount of Seti data until they can bring the new recorders online. The Northern sky has been scanned at least three times that I'm aware of.
I still believe in aliens but I feel my cpu cycles are better spent on humanitarian projects. I have one system that still does Seti and probably always will contribute a small percentage.
Anyway, some people thrive on drama and if they can't find sufficent amounts they create it from perceived injustices.
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KWSN - A Shrubbery
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jonnyv
Happy Fun Admin
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 2098
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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So some users accused him of cheating and he decided to take his ball and go home?
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Son Goku
Duke
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| jonnyv wrote: | | So some users accused him of cheating and he decided to take his ball and go home? |
Actually not quite, he went over to Einstein... Actually, I do have some feelings about some of this (also when I read of Paul D. Buck's departure, and tbh Paul Buck had helped me some with CPDN where well the sulpher cycles didn't like my A64, though it seems combined ocean likes it better). Again, Paul D. Buck is one who contributed a lot to BOINC, both with his wicki, his speaking with the projects, and on the boards where he was out there helping other users...
I really do feel there are some people on a witch hunt for alleged "cheaters". And whereas there are some cheaters out there, and people who edit .xml files so they can get a lot of credit and what not do harm the science; there are other claims that I think amount to cry babies in actuality who are all upset because, for instance people with faster computers can get more credit in a given day then them...
Of course people who have faster computers can get more credit, an Athlon 64, X2, or FX 60 can get more real work done in a given time period then an older PIII... People like Bill Gates can donate more to charity then some people in other occupations. Would it really be so wrong that he does donate more then some people make in an entire year? Would it really be so "unfair" that such a contribution should be acknoledged, simply because everyone else can't give so much?
Cheating is one thing, but IMO when we get to a point where some would start accusing all people with newer computers of cheating on the grounds "no fair, why should your FX60 be able to get more credit then my Pentium III in a given day, only time crunched should be counted not how much work (actual contributions to science are made) gets done", I think it's reached a point of being a problem.
So should all people with newer computers be branded cheaters? And what when people who have newer computers today find their computers obsoleted, by for instance Conroe, and people start buying Intel's upcomming x86-64 platform? There will always be someone with a faster computer, and if not now, given the rate of progress in the technology industry, in time to come. It's a part of life 
There are people with faster computers then my own, and I for one don't call them cheaters, simply for having a beefier computer that can do more. I really just don't get some of this...
This aspect of things is more the users then the projects however; and in dealing with some who whine and trying to appear responsive so as not to lose crunchers, bleh...
Last edited by Son Goku on Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Son Goku
Duke
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| A Shrubbery wrote: | Mine's bigger than most but I won't go there.
Crunch for whatever project you like. Ignore the whole "As the Stomach Turns" and everyone will be much happier.
As far as a "strike" it would have no effect on the adminstration or particularly the science. There is currently a pretty limited amount of Seti data until they can bring the new recorders online. The Northern sky has been scanned at least three times that I'm aware of.
I still believe in aliens but I feel my cpu cycles are better spent on humanitarian projects. I have one system that still does Seti and probably always will contribute a small percentage. |
That's the thing. If one were looking at the science alone, then from a purely practical standpoint, some of the other projects (such as Rosseta), do produce results that will likely impact our lives in a more direct way, in the here and now (or during our lifetimes essentially). Yes I do believe that there are other sentient beings out there, and no I don't believe we're alone in the universe. And yes the idea of finding them is intriguing...
That said, I remember reading that in a SETI like search, we're really in it for the long haul, and might well not find anything of interest for a couple of centuries or something. What's more, the species who might have something to offer humanity, are probably those who are beyond our current level of tech (aka could have a new tech they could introduce to us). Another race, at near our own tech level might have little they could offer for the betterment of humanity.
What's more, if they're too much like us; aka the number of holy wars we've had started over ideological disagreements, just imagine the possible result? It's a sure bet that an alien species would not share our same ideology, and probably wouldn't agree with us on every political, religious, or ideological point. If humans can find it difficult to get along with each other at times, another race similar to ourselves but ideologically different could pose no less a challenge 
This isn't to say that I don't find any scientific value (though I could well see a more advanced species exploring other means of communication, then be radio communications such as we are using here). But it can also be a long term (as in centuries or longer) search, vs. something that could perhaps positively impact us, during our lifetime... |
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KWSN - Sir Brian C.......
Stop calling me 'she'
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 2032
Location: Judea, AD33, at a stoning with me mum.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: my tuppence |
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Is overclocking your PC considered cheating as well? of course not.
I think this was a genuine mistake of Crunch3r
It just goes to prove.... ask questions first then state your case..... I don't think the person whostarted this one did that.
As far as overclaiming credit, the quorum methodology sorts that out.
Now as for Strikes. I hope we're not going to do anything stupid like that....
What it boils down to, is why do we do this? for me its the science, if the science of the project appeals to me then I'll sign up and pay for some electricity to support the science. hence no maths projects for me but astronomy / physics or humanitarian? I'm in.......
<edited>
So why do I use optimised apps. (seti and einstein) it because I casn produce more shrubs and add more to the science with the same amount ofelectricity (ie cost)
As for credits, that just adds a liitle fun to it , and being able to to taunt each other etc.
Oh and BTW when I realised what Truxsoft's calibrating client did to my rosetta credits, I changed it to the latest official boinc client 5.4.9 .....
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jonnyv
Happy Fun Admin
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 2098
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: |
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A strike is just about the most retarded response for this situation.
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klaatuborada
Yo ho! Post ho!
Joined: 08 Dec 2002
Posts: 2098
Location: by the dock by the bay...
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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I'm never going to be able to have beaucoup results as I'm just a little guy, but for me, that's the purpose of boinc. To let the "little guy" be part of the big picture too. Those having huge results seemed to me to be great contributors to the projects, and that's fantastic, because that IS what we are doing this for right? To help further the projects, and that's it. Stats are for fun, and that's it. We each do what we can do, but getting undies in a bundle over this seems extreme.
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ToeBee
KWSN Castellan
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 601
Location: Manhattan, KS
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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(to everyone) Strike? Yes! absolutely! Everyone strike!
(only to KWSN members) no strike here. Keep on crunchin' seti. In fact, everyone increase your resource share! If they want to fall in the standings, let 'em! 
Ok, seriously... I just got back from a weekend away from the internet and haven't even started to catch up on this whole debackle but so far I see no reason to strike. Just another flame war gone bad in Berkeley. I'm not sure what makes BOINC users so bad but in the past 2 years I have seen more pointless flame wars than any time in all my previous lives combined!  When it becomes too much for me I just ignore the message boards for a week or two. It honestly isn't worth the high blood pressure medication. |
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