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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 435
Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA
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Concrete-mixing Moose
Prince
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 567
Location: The Joyce Grenfell Home for the Distressed
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 Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: |
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"Xeon Phi will first show up in Stampede, a 10 Petaflop HPC Linux cluster expected to be operational by the start of 2013. Stampede, a project by the Texas Advanced Computing Center (TACC) with the University of Texas at Austin, will pair Xeon E5 CPUs – contributing around two Teraflops – with the remaining eight Teraflops delivered by Xeon Phi coprocessors."
That's the boys and girls at eOn's new toy 
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Sir Cracked of the Mind
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:30 am Post subject: |
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The last time we allowed our name to be used we ended up with that bawdy tale by Mr Chaucer, I suggest we are far more picky if we intend letting our name be used again.
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Gemjunkie
Prince
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 3519
Location: Earth, lately
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Concrete-mixing Moose wrote: | "Xeon Phi will first show up in Stampede, a 10 Petaflop HPC Linux cluster expected to be operational by the start of 2013. Stampede, a project by the Texas Advanced Computing Center (TACC) with the University of Texas at Austin, will pair Xeon E5 CPUs – contributing around two Teraflops – with the remaining eight Teraflops delivered by Xeon Phi coprocessors."
That's the boys and girls at eOn's new toy |
Now they'll be even more insufferable about not needing check-pointing.
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Mifun
Duke
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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Location: Russia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I wonder what the price is.
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
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Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Mifun wrote: | | I wonder what the price is. |
Well, that is always the salient question with new tech, isn't it? 
My own definition of "obscene" pricing is where it's far out-of-reach for the individual consumer.
If they bring the lowest-end model (~50 cores) out at over $3000, they may have over-priced it.
I could get a 4P Tyan mobo with 4 AMD Opteron (12 core) processors for not too much more coin.
The articles were kinda vague on certain aspects for which I want to know more:
1) A 'thin' driver needs to be developed.
OK, by whom? Shouldn't this be Intel's job?
And this usually means a new set of APIs to incorporate into apps, etc.
Will it be compatible with & supported in Windows and Linux?
2) The assertion of near plug-n-play to "automatically" ramp-up parallelism.
Hold on there.
I've been programming on HP NonStop Systems (fka Tandem Computers) for nearly 30 years.
Mass-scale parallelism is just not that easy to achieve.
There is a whole lot of work to be done to separate out multiple asynchronous parallel threads (child tasks) from the main dispatcher/monitor thread (parent task).
But all that aside...
How cool is the code-name "Knights Corner"???
Maybe even better if it was named "Knights Shrubbery".
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Nuadormrac
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 506
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Putting_things_on_top wrote: | | Mifun wrote: | | I wonder what the price is. |
Well, that is always the salient question with new tech, isn't it?
My own definition of "obscene" pricing is where it's far out-of-reach for the individual consumer. |
Funny thing is, one doesn't have to look far and wide for such products, such as a layer 7 switch from Cisco. A uni I went to had 2 of them at the core of their network, which came to $500,000 a piece. Or some storage devices that include their own self contained software control to provide dynamic load balancing accross multiple drives which make up the array of drives within the device, can be another rather pricey matter.
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Killerrabbit
Major Oblivion
Joined: 23 May 2002
Posts: 4656
Location: in a rabbit hole near you!!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Intel might be trying to detroy us.
Ni
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 435
Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Well, the Xeon-Phi is being released soon.
Early pricing estimates put the 'pro' version at just under $2700...
...and a 'consumer' version (to be introduced later 2Q2013?) at under $2000. 
This card seems like it will - by orders of magnitude - kick butt over ATI and Nvidia...but only for DP-FP projects (double-precision floating-point).
For SP-FP projects (F@H, etc), GPGPU will still have a clear, nearly obscene advantage. 
This article is VERY informative vis-à-vis "GPGPU vs. Compute Acceleration"...
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/13/what-will-intel-xeon-phi-do-to-the-gpgpu-market/
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Gemjunkie
Prince
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Location: Earth, lately
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 435
Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, maybe then AMD still has some growth potential in the 'enthusiast' and HPC markets.
The real problem is that if the perennial 3rd-party mobo manufacturers are shut-out, then the cost of socketed mobos will rise (double, triple, more?) or may go extinct altogether.
Most manufacturing is based on economy of scale.
If product demand is reduced by as little as 20%, it may force ASUS, MSI, etc to just quit that line of business. 
Intel seems to have a dominant position in the CPU market; and AMD is currently flailing (cutting LOTS of jobs, etc).
*OR* AMD might go down the tubes, too. Perhaps as soon as 18 to 24 months (by some exasperated rumors).
And then what?
ARM processors are - AFAIK - more architecture than hardware (an instruction set different from x86).
I suspect that Intel will try to dictate, control, or capture the lion's share of the ARM processor market as well.
This move by Intel (if sufficiently substantiated) is a brilliant strategic move - but only on their part.
But for the computing industry as a whole, this seems quite monopolistic.
And if this strategy succeeds, then what other strong-arm tactics will Intel use in future?
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Last edited by Putting_things_on_top on Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sir Papa Smurph
Cries like a little girl
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4430
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: |
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If not for competition we would still be using "Slot A" computers...
Are Y'all ready for $2000.00 Phones.........
There are something like 3 million of us DC shrubbers, Not near enough to get the attention of Intel. What we do is completely unimportant in their business model. With out the ability to configure our computers with Boinc or some other DC project in mind, we will All be Screwed. They will be like Apple, Only approved apps that meet THEIR goals.....
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 435
Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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I suspect there might be some significant blow-back from manufacturers of desktops & laptops.
Companies like HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM/Lenovo, and even Acer might put up some kind of fight. 
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LanDroid
Prince
Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 4476
Location: Cincinnati, OH U.S.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Sir Top says This card seems like it will - by orders of magnitude - kick butt over ATI and Nvidia...but only for DP-FP projects (double-precision floating-point). For SP-FP projects (F@H, etc), GPGPU will still have a clear, nearly obscene advantage. |
I don't see how a 50 core CPU can out-shrub a 500 to 1000 core GPU in double-precision math? Wait, I'm confused - this is not a CPU, it's actually a co-processor unit that would plug in similar to a GPU?
| Quote: | | Intel hasn’t put any hard date on availability but they have said they expect Xeon Phi co-processors to go into full production later this year... |
Wow, that was written in June '12, so does that mean we may be seeing the Kanigit Chip co-processor soon? I wonder if it would be possible (for a wealthy person) to install both the Xeon Phi AND say an Nvidia GTX 590 in the same system? |
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 435
Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Landroid wrote: | | I don't see how a 50 core CPU can out-shrub a 500 to 1000 core GPU in double-precision math? Wait, I'm confused - this is not a CPU, it's actually a co-processor unit that would plug in similar to a GPU? |
Clarification about the Xeon Phi...
It is a self-contained, PCIe 3.0 add-on module that has 50+ full instruction-set (x86) processor cores.
Each of these x86 CPU cores can easily do DP/FP by itself.
This module runs its own highly-optimized Linux OS, but presents itself as a set of natively attached "network of processors" to the mobo.
GPGPUs are essentially math co-processors on steriods (having only a subset of native instructions & highly-optimized to specific purposes).
Whereas the Xeon Phi is classified as compute acceleration technology.
It won't have direct access to main-memory or north/south-bridge devices or services (HDD, SSD, USB peripherals, etc).
It won't perform as well as a 4P mobo - and is not intended to do so.
It is intended to provide massive horsepower for computationally-intensive applications - period.
Both Nvidia and ATI have scaled back the DP/FP processors on their 'consumer' class GPU cards as they move forward.
They both want to protect their "pro" lines (Nvidia's Quadro & Tesla, and ATI's FirePro), so they can jack-up the prices by 4x to 8x over the equivalent consumer version!
The only differences between these are (the 'pro' version has):
1) Higher binned components (and therefore a better warranty)
2) Extra DP/FP units
3) Better (faster/more) memory in some cases
| Tom's Hardware wrote: | Although the GK104 GPU’s increased shader count has a positive impact on 32-bit floating-point math, drastically outperforming the GeForce GTX 590, it’s unable to catch AMD’s Radeon HD 7950, 6990, or 7970.
Moreover, Nvidia limits 64-bit double-precision math to 1/24 of single-precision, protecting its more compute-oriented cards from being displaced by purpose-built gamer boards.
The result is that GeForce GTX 680 underperforms GeForce GTX 590, 580 and to a much direr degree, the three competing boards from AMD. {sic: in the DP/FP space}
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-680-review-benchmark,3161-14.html |
Long story short: the Xeon Phi will kick-butt in DP/FP (especially against Nvidia), but GPUs will have the overwhelming advantage in SP/FP for a very long time.
This is just the state of things:
The 'consumer' video/GPU cards are aimed almost exclusively at the gaming community (the "purpose-built" cards).
DC/HPC is just a byproduct - a serendipitous happenstance - within this specific technology arena.
Intel has seen an opportunity to fill a void in the DP/FP arena - and they seem to be taking a direct competitive swipe at Nvidia (as well as ATI).
I wonder how Nvidia will respond to Intel's throwing-down-of-the-gauntlet...??? STAY TUNED!
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Putting_things_on_top
Duke
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 435
Location: Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| LanDroid wrote: | | ...I wonder if it would be possible (for a wealthy person) to install both the Xeon Phi AND say an Nvidia GTX 590 in the same system? |
I don't see any reason why it couldn't work.
The only catch is...you need to have Xeon-E5 as your main CPU (and compatible mobo) in order to use the Xeon Phi. 
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LanDroid
Prince
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Location: Cincinnati, OH U.S.
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