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Preparation for a New Shrubber
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The Knighty NI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Preparation for a New Shrubber Reply with quote

Well now that my new job has been signed and sealed I am expecting over the next 3 months to have enough spare coins to buy a new super duper shrubber.

What I am not sure about at this stage is the form that it should take. So here are my current ideas open to suggestions from all of the Sir Knights.

Option One
Build a server with multiple sockets and purchase the largest number of CPU's/cores that I can afford across the number of sockets.
Been looking at this configuration

http://www.compsource.com/pn/S8812WGM3NR/Tyan_454/

with 4 of these cores:

http://shop.zomp.net/gb_en/fa297ce24c-hp-585330-b21-hp-6128-dl385-g7.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=shoppingengine

the CPU's are the same speed as my current machine, just lots of them 32 in total Smile

Option Two

Build more machines with single sockets which would be more expensive in terms of initial cost plus lots more electricity to boot.

Suggestions for alternatives would be good.

Thanks
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Pooh Bear 27
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of GPUs!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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The Knighty NI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 CPU's Current
Plus new Shrubber running 32 CPU's

How many GPU's would I need to achieve the same results as 32 CPU's running at the same speed as my current AMD Phenom 2ghz 4 core?

On the Prime Grid Sofie Germain project I can process 3 WU's per hour per CPU which gives about 288 units every 24 hours.

With 36 CPU's I work this out to be about 2600 WU's every 24 hrs.

How do GPU's compare in terms of processing power to CPU's?

Can more than 2 GPU's be put in the same machine if so what is the maximum amount at this time?.

Would you need to use a bridge between each of them as in the 2 GPU configuration?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 5870 is about 30 times faster than my C2Q's (Q9400@2.66GHz & Q9550@2.83GHz) but there's only a few projects using it. Milkyway, Collatz, RC5-72 are the ones I've done, not sure how many more are out there yet.

My PhenomII x6 @3.2Ghz processed 5WU's per hour per core, ~720/day, but since then I've bumped the clock. I had it at 3.72GHz but backed it down slightly to 3.63GHz for maximum stability for twitchy projects like Prime Grid.

I've seen MB's with up to 4 slots for graphics cards but I don't have any with multiples so I can't help you there.

What OS do you have in mind?

Keep us informed of your build, it's very interesting. Good luck!
Post some photos!

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The Knighty NI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am open to OS and willing to learn a new system if needed. Thought about the possibility of Linux though know nothing about it at present.

The new shrubber will be between this machine and the outside world (internet).

Currently running XP Pro.

I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time Sad very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol.

When I start to make the purchases I'll post some pics Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)

The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:

Quote:
BOINC Projects

1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.

2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.

3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.

4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client

5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files

6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.

7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux


Non-Boinc Projects

1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine

2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).



source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189
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The Knighty NI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linky doo to a picture of the MB for Option 1

ftp://ftp.tyan.com/img_mobo/S8812_2D_S.jpg

Just found out that this monster can take 12 core Opteron chips WoW that would give me 48 CPU's to munch up WU's with. If I can afford the fastest ones at 2.4 ghz that would be awesome.

Edited because I forgot to say the link is to a picture Lol
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Hal9000x86
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the bridges that video cards can use, it is not needed if not running sli or crossfire. They can be use them to enhance performance if the program was designed to take advantage of it and if the motherboard was designed to enable it. But for that board you can't run more then one pci-e video card at once anyway. You can put as many video cards in the computer as the motherboard allows, my current msi can hold 4 video cards. But It would take a power supply at least 1.2 Kilowatts to run it for the higher ones.
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Gemjunkie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Knighty NI wrote:
I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time Sad very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol.


I lost a PSP after it was 99.7% complete, 70hrs. Crying or Very sad



Cow_tipping wrote:
GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)

The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:

Quote:
BOINC Projects

1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.

2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.

3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.

4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client

5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files

6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.

7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux


Non-Boinc Projects

1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine

2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).



source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189


The link to the list of supported cards doesn't work. Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch 3 days work lost I really feel for you Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disconnected/swapped out components gradually and narrowed the problem down to the CPU or MB. I replaced the MB and haven't seen a problem since. Smile

I imagine that 48-core shrubber would do wonders in Folding if you could get the 64-bit Linux SMP client running. Shocked
Do they charge much more for quad channel memory modules? I'm guessing you're not planning on the full 256GB.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gemjunkie wrote:
The Knighty NI wrote:
I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time Sad very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol.


I lost a PSP after it was 99.7% complete, 70hrs. Crying or Very sad



Cow_tipping wrote:
GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)

The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:

Quote:
BOINC Projects

1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.

2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.

3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.

4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client

5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files

6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.

7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux


Non-Boinc Projects

1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine

2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).



source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189


The link to the list of supported cards doesn't work. Crying or Very sad


Oops, I didn't check the link. Quotes in quotes are not always a good thing.

Here is the mentioned link from my 'original' quoted post: http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/forum_thread.php?id=1505
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cow_tipping wrote:
Gemjunkie wrote:
The Knighty NI wrote:
I bumped mine up to 2.4ghz for 2 hours while doing SSG and noticed that I started getting invalid units so took it back down to 2 ghz. Stupidly in that 2 hrs I lost 24 WU's in that time Sad very sad about that. Lucky it was not during the 24 hrs of the challenge Lol.


I lost a PSP after it was 99.7% complete, 70hrs. Crying or Very sad



Cow_tipping wrote:
GPU's are condensed pc's. They produce a lot of heat and noise, require heaps of current to feed them but are very effective so.
Upgrading a video card to stay up to date with current shrubbers might be cheaper than buying a new pc every year (CPU-, memory-, cooler-, motherboard-combo)

The projects you can run with a videocard are limited though:

Quote:
BOINC Projects

1. GPUGrid - NVidia CUDA, 64 bit Windows and Linux clients. G200 based GPU's have a significant advantage over G92 based GPU's.

2. Collatz Conjecture - Both NVidia and ATI cards with ATI having an advantage. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA.

3. Milky Way - ATI & NVidia CUDA client, MilkyWay requires a card with double precision floating point. Refer to http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/mil...m_thread.php?id=1505 for a list of supported cards. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported for NVIDIA. Windows only for ATI.

4. Seti@Home - NVidia CUDA only but Lunatic is working on an ATI client

5. PrimeGrid Subproject AP26 - uses NVidia cards without modifications, will also use ATI cards with modifications to BOINC files

6. Einstein@Home - NVIDIA only. Both windows and 64 bit linux are supported. Others report it is not an efficient use of GPU resources.

7. DrugDiscovery@Home has applications for 32 bit windows ( will run on 64 bit windows ), 32 and 64 bit linux and CUDA GPU's under both windows and linux


Non-Boinc Projects

1. Folding@Home - Both ATI and NVIDIA with NVIDIA having a strong advantage. Windows GPU clients only although the nvidia gpu client can be made to work under linux with wine

2. DNetc/RC5-72 - ATI and NVidia CUDA, The only GPU client for Mac OSX. Windows only. Requires cards with more than 384 meg of ram (384 will not work).



source of the quote from outlandr @ Ars: http://arstechnica.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=36189


The link to the list of supported cards doesn't work. Crying or Very sad


Oops, I didn't check the link. Quotes in quotes are not always a good thing.

Here is the mentioned link from my 'original' quoted post: http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/forum_thread.php?id=1505


Neither are links to links. Laughing

Thanks for the new one.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not decided which option and/or configuration to go for yet.

If I go down the server route with that MB and 4 processors I will have to check how memory has to be placed relevant to the cores. Also have to make sure that I purchase 4 processors exactly alike in terms of releases and firmware inside them.

Possible memory options

1. If memory has to be balanced in pairs per processor I will go for quad channel memory at 1333mhz and put it in in 16gb chunks per processor total 64gb to start. Then purchase 64gb chunks per month over the next 3 months.

2. If I have the option of putting in single sticks per processor then I will go for 8gb per processor totaling 32gb to start off with. Purchase the remaining 224gb over the next 3 months

3. The last option if I don't have to apply memory per processor will get 16gb to start with. As above bump to the full 256gb over the following 3 months.

Factors I am considering as my main criteria

1. Contain everything that is needed for a monster shrubber in one box.
2. Total power usage in watts when running for all components - total for these processors is 420w at 105w each. Still to find out wattage for remaining components. Current guess is going to be about 650w or about 220w more than current machine.
3. Low noise levels (I rent so it will have to be in my bedroom - my current machine is so quite I hardly notice that it is switched on and running 24/7).

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the linkage Cow_tipping.

My next avenue of thought and investigation GPU stuff Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the GPU stuff is behind what is really happening.

Primegrid AP26 has been retired.
Primegrid PPS Sieve now has CUDA and ATI CL applications.

DNECT is a project that can use both CUDA and ATI, but be warned, they take all the work they do for their project and insert it into the main project, which you can do separately (non-BOINC) and get credit for yourself and KWSN team.

There are probably others.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Server hardware comes with a huge premium, since companies are willing to pay extra for reliability and stuff like virtualization.
You could get a complete mid-range system for the price of a single 4P 12-core Opteron processor.
I assume you need registered RAM for that thing? That's more expensive to.
Why even consider more than 8GB per processor? You will never use it.

For the cost of a single 48-core Opteron system, you could get four 6-core systems with decent GPUs and still have lots of money to spend. Power consumption may be up a bit, but noise levels would probably still be down (server hardware isn't exactly optimized for living room conditions). You would get less points in CPU projects, but the GPUs would get your overall score higher.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good point you make about more than 8gb per processor Mildew. After I wrote the above I was thinking about exactly that.

I came to the conclusion that if I put a max 48gb memory in the machine that would probably far more than would be used except for really big WU's yet allow up to 1gb per core just slightly above your suggestion Smile

#ni-1

Gonna have to consider the rest of what you have written before I reply Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of memory can be very useful if you are planning to use VM's for projects as Dimes or Majestic-12.
Cool
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