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Lloyd M.
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 521
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JerWA wrote: | It will do good things, I do declare it is so. Can you overclock those Xeons? Maybe Vapochill them to like, I dunno, 175% stock clock?  |
ROFLMAO! Man, I wouldn't know where to start. Anybody know how to OC an IBM Netfinity? 
Seriously, the CPUs might be slow, but there's four of them, and I hear that Server 2003 is good at SMP
My son's Sempron box will probably get a real A64 soon (they were too costly when I first built it a while back). He leaves it on a lot anyway, though I would have to be a lot more aggressive about switching the app out of memory when he's using it. Transcoding video is the most processor-intensive task I've done on my own AMD rig, and that's nothing (in a relative sense) compared to how many resources his games use on his machine.
As for my own AMD rig, it's about as overclockable as you can get - it has a Fatal1ty mobo with all the buses separately lockable and adjustable in 1 Mhz increments. It's just running too blasted hot to even try to OC right now. As far as that goes, my son's machine has an ABit mobo in it as well, and is similarly overclockable (though I never have). I did get an OEM FX55 HSF for it, so I ought to be able to lean on it on air, even with a "real" A64 chip.
I have had my eye on some very quiet 120 mm fans that Cyberguys just started carrying. Then I found this honking (yet still supposedly "whisper quiet"), three-speed, squirrel cage blower for sale at Wally World for something like $18.95. I'm tempted to buy one, build a box for it so I can put in something to filter the air inlet, then pipe the outlet right into the case. I can see where it would just overwhelm the current outlet fans and blow out through all the other holes and vents in the case.
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JerWA
Prince
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Lloyd M. wrote: | | My son's Sempron box will probably get a real A64 soon (they were too costly when I first built it a while back). He leaves it on a lot anyway, though I would have to be a lot more aggressive about switching the app out of memory when he's using it. Transcoding video is the most processor-intensive task I've done on my own AMD rig, and that's nothing (in a relative sense) compared to how many resources his games use on his machine. |
That one is easy, it's supported right in BOINC. Edit one of your accounts and make special settings for school or work, set it to only do work while idle, and to run after 2 minutes of idle time. 2 of my Core2s and the P4 run under those settings and still manage to be over 90% available to BOINC! Just make sure that it's set to unload the app from memory when not active, and you'll never know it's there. The TSR uses only a few KB of memory and no processor time until it fires back up. Once you have the settings setup for school or work, go to the project(s) that machine crunches, view the hosts on the project, and it will let you assign a location to them individually. Put his computer in the new location, and voila! The settings for school & work are universal, in that they should actually migrate to every project. From then on, you just have to go to the projects in question and put the host(s) in the right locations.
| Lloyd M. wrote: | | As for my own AMD rig, it's about as overclockable as you can get - it has a Fatal1ty mobo with all the buses separately lockable and adjustable in 1 Mhz increments. It's just running too blasted hot to even try to OC right now. As far as that goes, my son's machine has an ABit mobo in it as well, and is similarly overclockable (though I never have). I did get an OEM FX55 HSF for it, so I ought to be able to lean on it on air, even with a "real" A64 chip. |
I'm surprised you have such heat issues. Then again, maybe I've never had them because I refuse to run OEM coolers ever. I have a box full of like 6 of them that have never even seen power (I think one of them was for a 486 lol). I'm using one of those huge heat pipe "silent tower" type CPU coolers on the Athlon 3k+ and the memory pukes long before heat is an issue. Totally worth the investment. I'm also running passive northbridge cooling believe it or not, the stock chipset fan died (from dust, that machine has a problem with it) and rather than put another one that was just going to die too I put a huge heatsink on it, and southbridge. I also bought a Zalman aftermarket kit for the graphics card that included not only a huge cooler and 92mm fan (which is right next to the northbridge, adding greatly to that heatsinks effectiveness) but heatsinks for both sides of every memory chip on the card.
| Lloyd M. wrote: | | I have had my eye on some very quiet 120 mm fans that Cyberguys just started carrying. Then I found this honking (yet still supposedly "whisper quiet"), three-speed, squirrel cage blower for sale at Wally World for something like $18.95. I'm tempted to buy one, build a box for it so I can put in something to filter the air inlet, then pipe the outlet right into the case. I can see where it would just overwhelm the current outlet fans and blow out through all the other holes and vents in the case. |
Before I got the heatpipe setup I was using a more typical copper heatsink (looked stock just more effective) with a 92mm to 80mm adapter and a 92mm fan. The problem I ended up with was dust, as I mentioned above, but I'm now filtering one of my inlets with huge noticeable effect (I have to clean the screen every 3 days). I am totally sold on the effectiveness of fan screens now, and they're easy to clean, so my next case is going to have them built in so all inlets can be filtered.
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Lloyd M.
Prince
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| JerWA wrote: | | That one is easy, it's supported right in BOINC. Edit one of your accounts and make special settings for school or work, set it to only do work while idle, and to run after 2 minutes of idle time. 2 of my Core2s and the P4 run under those settings and still manage to be over 90% available to BOINC! |
I'm already using this to set different settings for the two machines I am using. The main issue here is I haven't wired up the network yet, and I'm far too paranoid to ever use wireless.
| JerWA wrote: | | I'm surprised you have such heat issues. Then again, maybe I've never had them because I refuse to run OEM coolers ever. |
The FX55 cooler on the Sempron is a heat pipe type, and given the disparity in performance (and heat profile) of the chips (what he's running and what the HSF was designed for), it's about like running brakes from a Formula One car on one of those 5 HP go karts from an amusement park.
My AMD rig has a Thermal Take heat pipe HSF. The stock one was also heat pipe, though I've never used it.
My main concern is that (according to the Fatal1ty system monitor) the system board temperature is at least 10 degrees C higher than ambient, and the CPU is running 10-15 C higher than that, with the PWM close to as hot as the CPU. Clearly I'm not getting enough cool air into the case, nor enough hot air out. Just adding one small fan that I already had mounted in the case to exhaust, with some fairly conservative fan EQ settings, seems to have helped, at least slightly.
I've lost some production, perhaps because of power outages (no ups on this machine, I have a 3.1 kVA one in the basement for the server, once I can get a 20 amp outlet wired for it). Anyway, it also could have been because of heat, because the ABit fan EQ default temperature shutdown is fairly conservative. When I was fooling with the GUI fan EQ app, it included some very moderate overclocks on some of the stock profiles, and I had some problems with system lockups (which was likely me being too agressive in trying to quiet down the fans).
| JerWA wrote: | | Before I got the heatpipe setup I was using a more typical copper heatsink (looked stock just more effective) with a 92mm to 80mm adapter and a 92mm fan. The problem I ended up with was dust, as I mentioned above, but I'm now filtering one of my inlets with huge noticeable effect (I have to clean the screen every 3 days). I am totally sold on the effectiveness of fan screens now, and they're easy to clean, so my next case is going to have them built in so all inlets can be filtered. |
I'm thinking that that big squirrel cage blower may be able to push air out of all of the various holes in the case, and if I filter it, I'll have filtered air throughout.
That's the plan, anyway.
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JerWA
Prince
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I think the problem is you're trying to keep fans quiet and overclock. Perhaps I should also have said that I'm running 4 (1 on the silent tower) 80mm fans and a 120mm fan on that case. Two of the 80mm fans are screamers, and are rated to flow ~85 cfm. Heat issues? Pfft. As for noise, it's the case on the desk right next to my bed. <shrug> I like white noise I guess hehe.
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Lloyd M.
Prince
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JerWA wrote: | | I think the problem is you're trying to keep fans quiet and overclock. Perhaps I should also have said that I'm running 4 (1 on the silent tower) 80mm fans and a 120mm fan on that case. Two of the 80mm fans are screamers, and are rated to flow ~85 cfm. Heat issues? Pfft. As for noise, it's the case on the desk right next to my bed. <shrug> I like white noise I guess hehe. |
I gave up on the quiet part a long time ago (as soon as I figured out that it was causing problems), at least in the conventional sense. As far as that goes, I set the fan EQ to kick in full voltage at lower than default temperatures on the main fans, and was very conservative with the fan EQ settings on the case fan I have hooked to the mobo.
Those 120mm fans I was talking about are pretty neat. How about 63.7 cfm at 28dBA, or 49 cfm at 20.1 dBA, or (my favorite) 33 cfm at a ridiculous 8.7 dBA.
This must be something like what they use in the Core 2 Duo I have at work. There's no obvious fan in the PSU at all, and, overall, that crazy thing is almost entirely silent. Believe me, I would use that thing to shrub if it wouldn't instantly get me into about 17 kinds of trouble, and with the Federal Government, no less.
The squirrel cage blower I was talking about is roughly 10 x 10 inches, which ought to out-flow quite a number of 80mm fans, no matter how loud they are. Yes, the fact that it's supposed to be quiet enters into the equation, but it's also relatively cheap, and should flow like crazy.
As for noise, I have to keep the XYL happy. At one point on my old K6-II rig, with a new "sounds-like-a-dustbuster-on-meth-trapped-in-the-case" HSF, she made me turn it off when I wasn't using it ("happy wife, happy life").
And I bet that even you couldn't stand the near-turbine engine screeching coming out of each of the two fans in the redundant PSUs in my Compaq rack-mount RAID array. I am really going to have to replace those fans if I'm ever going to spend much time in the same room with that rig.
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JerWA
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Location: WA, USA
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A Shrubbery
Prince
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 1861
Location: Pacific NW
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Every time I look at that pic I think to myself wow, I really need to organize. |
And I was thinking "I wish I could be that organized".
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Lloyd M.
Prince
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JerWA wrote: | | Every time I look at that pic I think to myself wow, I really need to organize. |
| A Shrubbery wrote: | | [And I was thinking "I wish I could be that organized". |
Me too.
| JerWA wrote: | | 75 cfm, sorry. 49 dba |
Criminy, that's loud. Probably not as loud as those ridiculously loud fans in my Compaq RAID array, and certainly in the same class.
I would just as soon put up with, what, 12% reduction in air flow for something like a 75% decrease in the subjective perception of loudness.
| JerWA wrote: | | Here's that heatpipe cooler I was talking about. And yes, it really does almost touch the side window. That side fan is where I added the filter and it makes a huge difference in dust levels. |
I guess there's heatpipe coolers and then there's HEATPIPE COOLERS! 
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Lloyd M.
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Eaving
Prince
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 694
Location: Portland, Or.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: |
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It is possible to get high air flow out of relatively quiet fans. Especially on 120's. Check out SPCR.com for various fan reviews, noise is not inherently a sign of efficiency by any stretch of the imagination.
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JerWA
Prince
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Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, and even bigger fans work better. A few companies have started putting 240mm (yes, 240!) fans in the case because with only 20 db or so you can flow like 150 cfm hehe. Just don't get your fingers too close (or small animals/children).
At the time (several years ago) that I built that system, with overclocking in mind, those were the fans to beat. I'd never even heard of a 92mm fan at that point. The nice thing about the fans I'm using is they're adjustable with a knob (pic is linked above), and if you bring them down a few hundred RPM from max they drop noise by half I swear. The only one I had going full out was for the CPU, and that was before the tower.
The next case I'm looking at uses 3 120mm fans (front intake with filter, rear exhaust, and top exhaust). I'm sure I can put nifty fans in there for very nice airflow with much less noise. I must admit that I'm kinda spoiled by my E6400, the fans are only audible when I play games. The 100% CPU load isn't enough to trip the heat sensors. 
Here's the next case I'll be using: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129017
And here's one of the cases with a huge fan (250mm for this one, and not just one but TWO, the side fan is also 250mm lol):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103008
Now THAT is a fan. 
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Last edited by JerWA on Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KWSN - Sir Brian C.......
Stop calling me 'she'
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 2032
Location: Judea, AD33, at a stoning with me mum.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| JerWA wrote: | 
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you want look at investing in some cable ties to neaten up all those cables.... not only does in tmpreve the look it als has a significant improvement in airflow and so noise....
I'll have to take a phot of the server room (sorry spare bedroom!).....
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JerWA
Prince
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Actually, though hard to tell from that pic, the cables are plenty neat (they just aren't pretty). This system is from before the time of extra long PSU cables that let you route them all out of site. I've got a few cable runs in that case that have to run diagonal across the motherboard just to reach. The bulk of them are above the PSU, with the molex chains stuffed into the mid drive bay which has nothing in it (and no airflow through it). The rear fans, audio line, and power lines on the MB run up the back in between the case and side of the fan and are out of the airflow entirely. All of the drive cables are rounded, and there's nowhere else for them to go (they're the shortest length, and almost won't even clear the drive to connection point on the bottom it's so close).
It flows plenty of air, both of my screamers are on the rear exhaust. I know it pulls more air than the 120mm front and 80mm side fan can intake, because I get dust and hair and stuff stuck around the drive bay faces at the top front of the case. 
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Last edited by JerWA on Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mohrorless
Mail Order Goat Bride
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| JerWA wrote: | It flows plenty of air, both of my screamers are on the rear exhaust. I know it pulls more air than the 120mm front and 80mm side fan can intake, because I get dust and hair and stuff stuck around the drive bay faces at the top front of the case.  |
You made a vacum!
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JerWA
Prince
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| mohrorless wrote: | | You made a vacum! |
Indeed. And now that it has a filter on it, I made an air cleaner too. It actually worked out really well. The lower intake fan is where the hard drives are, and the upper drive bay is where the optical drive is, so all the drives get airflow.
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Last edited by JerWA on Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Eaving
Prince
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 694
Location: Portland, Or.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree about the E6400  . I'll admit Ive not bothered overclocking it, but shrubbing for days on end it still only runs about 90-93 degrees.
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Lloyd M.
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Eaving wrote: | | Go to your boinc page for whatever project you want to look up. From there the third block of details is your join date and position in sign-up date with a link to see the full list. I actually bookmarked Boinc there so its the first thing I see whenever I head into Boinc. |
Eaving,
I'm not finding any of this stuff. I guess I'm just dense. 
BTW, I'm one of those 124 SETI classic users you were also talking about.
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JerWA
Prince
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Lloyd,
What he's talking about is on your BOINCStats page, there's a little table with each project, total credits, % of your total, and "last day" numbers. The far right column of that table is a little graph icon and clicking it will take you to your specific stats for that project. On THAT page your join date is listed, as well as a link to your "rank" out of everyone that joined on the same day.
Update: I updated all of my join-day stats earlier in this thread. I just can't resist, I'm a total stats whore. 
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Last edited by JerWA on Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lloyd M.
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Eaving wrote: | | I have to agree about the E6400 . I'll admit Ive not bothered overclocking it, but shrubbing for days on end it still only runs about 90-93 degrees. |
"only 90-93"? Celsius?
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Lloyd M.
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| JerWA wrote: | Lloyd,
What he's talking about is on your BOINCStats page, there's a little table with each project, total credits, % of your total, and "last day" numbers. The far right column of that table is a little graph icon and clicking it will take you to your specific stats for that project. On THAT page your join date is listed, as well as a link to your "rank" out of everyone that joined on the same day.
Update: I updated all of my join-day stats earlier in this thread. I just can't resist, I'm a total stats whore. |
Well, I am too, though I'm more than a little perturbed now, because that fiasco with my BOINC client caused just under 4000 credits to disappear, and now I'm officially back under 50K again.
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